Kathleen Bounds Top fanJanuary 22, 2023 at 3:46 pm
Thank you for this eloquent tribute to General Lee, a true gentleman. I recommend a book by Richard Adams (author of “Watership Down”) – “Traveller”, the General’s horse. It tells the story of the Civil War from an equine perspective. Traveller is also mentioned in “John Brown’s Body”, a poem by Stephen Vincent Benet (1928).
Traveller died of tetanus not long after the General died – and is buried within yards of his master, in front of the Chapel at Washington and Lee University.
Good to see more good people who appreciated Mr Alexander’s writing this time than the usual cacophony of liberal snowflakes who wish they could write one tenth as well as he.
Good to see more good people who appreciated Mr Alexander’s writing this time than the usual cacophony of liberal snowflakes who wish they could write one tenth as well as he.
“Seriously, think about it — there’s no political issue that would inspire you to kill friends and family. None.”
First of all, wars are nothing if not political, especially civil wars. It’s extremely dangerous to pretend that someone wouldn’t turn to killing members of their community, even good friends or family, given a “good enough” reason to do so. This is how revolutions happen. This is how people become comfortable with concentration camps. This is how genocides start. These are how some cults end.
Secondly… Buddy, I don’t consider anyone who owns slaves, or promotes or defends the practice of slavery, as a friend or a family member. If someone I’m close to came out as pro-slavery that would be an immediate disown and disavow.
No matter how badly you want to pretend the civil war wasn’t about slavery, it was. Every Confederate soldier was on some level defending the institution of slavery. They picked up arms in defense of a nation that was explicitly founded on the protection of what was considered the god-given right of slavery, both in writing and by the leaders’ own words. They were willing to kill people to protect the bottom line of slave owners.
Honestly there’s a lot more problematic stuff in this post (surprise!) but I don’t see a point in engaging beyond this part.
E Prioleau Alexander AuthorJanuary 23, 2023 at 10:29 am
a) It wasn’t a Civil War. The South had no intention of overthrowing the Federal government and inserting themselves as the leaders of the union.
b) “disown and disavow” is far from shooting them in the face.
c) If you don’t even know what a civil war is, I’m not sure this would be a productive debate. I’d be happy to read a piece by you… maybe you could address more than one of my suppositions. Be sure to defend Sherman– compare him to the charges of war crimes levied against the Confederate officers.
d) Anyone who hides behind an anonymous handle doesn’t get to call me “Buddy.” If I don’t know your name, how can I know we’re buddies?
a) Great, the side that 100% wanted to continue the subjugation of what they deemed to be inferior races didn’t want to also subjugate the North. I guess that makes them 3/5ths wrong.
b) Someone who engages in the enslavement of others, or violently defends it, should be stopped at all costs. That includes violence. Condemning a slave or a freedom fighter for killing a slaver when America went to war with the British over less seems really bizarre. Give me freedom or give me death? Refreshing the tree of liberty? This isn’t a radical idea. Those who enslave or protect the practice of it should consider themselves in a perpetual state of FAFO.
My great great grandfather, Alexander Covington Thomas, surrendered with Lee at Appomattox. My ancestors fought for the Confederacy and lost all their money and most of their land in the aftermath. I was brought up on the moonlight and magnolias myth of the Old South—which I swallowed hook, line, and sinker. My grandfather’s parents’ families owned plantations and slaves (in upstate South Carolina) and his grandmother never got over the fact that she was born “a lady”. Her youngest son, to save his sanity and marriage, put her on a train from Alabama to Oklahoma, where she landed on my great grandmother’s (an Arkansas farm girl) doorstep–not a happy occasion for anyone concerned. Anyway, as I said , I bought into it big time. Three events opened my eyes: the murder of George Floyd, a book called Jefferson’s Daughters and reading the contemporaneous documents and speeches of the founders of the Confederacy. Alexander Stephens leaves little room for nuanced interpretation when he states that whites are superior to “negroes [sic]” and slavery is a founding principle of the Confederacy. Thomas Jefferson’s disparate treatment of his children with Sally Hemings (all of whom were light skinned and most of whom eventually passed in to white society) is truly sickening. Example: his slave children got a set of new clothes once every three years. And Jefferson was well aware that had Hemings had her children in France—where he began his sexual relationship with her (his dead wife’s half sister and ostensible governess for his white daughters)—they would have been born free. Finally, the knee jerk defense of a lot of white Americans of the sociopath who killed Floyd in front a crowd that was literally begging him to stop–how could anyone defend such behavior? I’ll tell you how: by believing that Floyd, a large black man, was less than human. Where oh where did that idea come from?
Stephen Guilfoyle Top fanJanuary 24, 2023 at 3:47 pm
It’s amazing the number of self-delusions can be strung together.
“The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things,” Robert E. Lee wrote in defending slavery as an institution.
From an article in the Atlantic: “When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”
Not only did Lee fight for slavery, he enslaved.
“During the invasion of Pennsylvania, Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia enslaved free black Americans and brought them back to the South as property. Pryor writes that “evidence links virtually every infantry and cavalry unit in Lee’s army” to the abduction of free black Americans, “with the activity under the supervision of senior officers.”
And I always love the articles that talk about this “War of Northern Aggression” in which the South fired the first shots.
So when you ask if the Southern Generals thought they fought to ensure his slaves remained human property and some where disappointed because (they) couldn’t go home and whip … slaves?”
Yes. Yes I do. Maybe not those exact thoughts for those exact Generals. But those thoughts, in general. Lee, who wouldn’t allow black Union soldier POWs to be traded one for one with white Southerners? Who, again, enslaved any black person he could find when he invaded Pennsylvania? Who looked the other way when his troops slaughtered black POWs? There’s those atrocities you seem to think the Suth’n boys incapable of committing.
Andersonville. Yeah. Men of honor.
Fort Pillow. Honor was more highly prized?
Self-delusion.
14 comments
A rare word of truth in this seemingly never-ending ocean of lies about the war and the men who fought in it. Bravo
Thank you.
Thank you for this eloquent tribute to General Lee, a true gentleman. I recommend a book by Richard Adams (author of “Watership Down”) – “Traveller”, the General’s horse. It tells the story of the Civil War from an equine perspective. Traveller is also mentioned in “John Brown’s Body”, a poem by Stephen Vincent Benet (1928).
Traveller died of tetanus not long after the General died – and is buried within yards of his master, in front of the Chapel at Washington and Lee University.
Good riddance to Lee, a traitor to this country and a slave owner.
Good to see more good people who appreciated Mr Alexander’s writing this time than the usual cacophony of liberal snowflakes who wish they could write one tenth as well as he.
Alexander and Lee occupy the same plane of relevance….none.
Good to see more good people who appreciated Mr Alexander’s writing this time than the usual cacophony of liberal snowflakes who wish they could write one tenth as well as he.
“Seriously, think about it — there’s no political issue that would inspire you to kill friends and family. None.”
First of all, wars are nothing if not political, especially civil wars. It’s extremely dangerous to pretend that someone wouldn’t turn to killing members of their community, even good friends or family, given a “good enough” reason to do so. This is how revolutions happen. This is how people become comfortable with concentration camps. This is how genocides start. These are how some cults end.
Secondly… Buddy, I don’t consider anyone who owns slaves, or promotes or defends the practice of slavery, as a friend or a family member. If someone I’m close to came out as pro-slavery that would be an immediate disown and disavow.
No matter how badly you want to pretend the civil war wasn’t about slavery, it was. Every Confederate soldier was on some level defending the institution of slavery. They picked up arms in defense of a nation that was explicitly founded on the protection of what was considered the god-given right of slavery, both in writing and by the leaders’ own words. They were willing to kill people to protect the bottom line of slave owners.
Honestly there’s a lot more problematic stuff in this post (surprise!) but I don’t see a point in engaging beyond this part.
Bravo. Well said to the silly apologists for Lee.
a) It wasn’t a Civil War. The South had no intention of overthrowing the Federal government and inserting themselves as the leaders of the union.
b) “disown and disavow” is far from shooting them in the face.
c) If you don’t even know what a civil war is, I’m not sure this would be a productive debate. I’d be happy to read a piece by you… maybe you could address more than one of my suppositions. Be sure to defend Sherman– compare him to the charges of war crimes levied against the Confederate officers.
d) Anyone who hides behind an anonymous handle doesn’t get to call me “Buddy.” If I don’t know your name, how can I know we’re buddies?
a) Great, the side that 100% wanted to continue the subjugation of what they deemed to be inferior races didn’t want to also subjugate the North. I guess that makes them 3/5ths wrong.
b) Someone who engages in the enslavement of others, or violently defends it, should be stopped at all costs. That includes violence. Condemning a slave or a freedom fighter for killing a slaver when America went to war with the British over less seems really bizarre. Give me freedom or give me death? Refreshing the tree of liberty? This isn’t a radical idea. Those who enslave or protect the practice of it should consider themselves in a perpetual state of FAFO.
c) Debate what? Sherman bad? Okay. Lee still bad.
d) You’ll be okay, buddy.
My great great grandfather, Alexander Covington Thomas, surrendered with Lee at Appomattox. My ancestors fought for the Confederacy and lost all their money and most of their land in the aftermath. I was brought up on the moonlight and magnolias myth of the Old South—which I swallowed hook, line, and sinker. My grandfather’s parents’ families owned plantations and slaves (in upstate South Carolina) and his grandmother never got over the fact that she was born “a lady”. Her youngest son, to save his sanity and marriage, put her on a train from Alabama to Oklahoma, where she landed on my great grandmother’s (an Arkansas farm girl) doorstep–not a happy occasion for anyone concerned. Anyway, as I said , I bought into it big time. Three events opened my eyes: the murder of George Floyd, a book called Jefferson’s Daughters and reading the contemporaneous documents and speeches of the founders of the Confederacy. Alexander Stephens leaves little room for nuanced interpretation when he states that whites are superior to “negroes [sic]” and slavery is a founding principle of the Confederacy. Thomas Jefferson’s disparate treatment of his children with Sally Hemings (all of whom were light skinned and most of whom eventually passed in to white society) is truly sickening. Example: his slave children got a set of new clothes once every three years. And Jefferson was well aware that had Hemings had her children in France—where he began his sexual relationship with her (his dead wife’s half sister and ostensible governess for his white daughters)—they would have been born free. Finally, the knee jerk defense of a lot of white Americans of the sociopath who killed Floyd in front a crowd that was literally begging him to stop–how could anyone defend such behavior? I’ll tell you how: by believing that Floyd, a large black man, was less than human. Where oh where did that idea come from?
Congratulations Dianne on your graduation from Snowflake Academy as Valedictorian! You learned well.0
It’s amazing the number of self-delusions can be strung together.
“The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things,” Robert E. Lee wrote in defending slavery as an institution.
From an article in the Atlantic: “When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”
Not only did Lee fight for slavery, he enslaved.
“During the invasion of Pennsylvania, Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia enslaved free black Americans and brought them back to the South as property. Pryor writes that “evidence links virtually every infantry and cavalry unit in Lee’s army” to the abduction of free black Americans, “with the activity under the supervision of senior officers.”
And I always love the articles that talk about this “War of Northern Aggression” in which the South fired the first shots.
So when you ask if the Southern Generals thought they fought to ensure his slaves remained human property and some where disappointed because (they) couldn’t go home and whip … slaves?”
Yes. Yes I do. Maybe not those exact thoughts for those exact Generals. But those thoughts, in general. Lee, who wouldn’t allow black Union soldier POWs to be traded one for one with white Southerners? Who, again, enslaved any black person he could find when he invaded Pennsylvania? Who looked the other way when his troops slaughtered black POWs? There’s those atrocities you seem to think the Suth’n boys incapable of committing.
Andersonville. Yeah. Men of honor.
Fort Pillow. Honor was more highly prized?
Self-delusion.