RELIGIOUS FREEDOM? OR GOVERNMENT ENDORSEMENT OF CHRISTIANITY?
The mayor of Seneca, S.C. says he won’t remove a cross embedded in a rock wall at a government-run water plant. The cross – placed at the plant in remembrance of a construction worker who died there – has come under fire from the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation.
According to the group – which has previously targeted nearby Clemson University – the cross is a government sanctioning of Christianity.
“While I appreciate the concern that some may think this display to be an endorsement by a public body of a certain religion, it is my opinion that this memorial and remembrance to life lost, which is located at an operating facility behind a locked fence, unseen from public view, is anything but a religious endorsement,” mayor Dan Alexander told The Greenville (S.C.) News.
The cross honors Chuck Keeler, a worker who died from a fall at the facility during its construction.
Alexander’s decision was praised by the Palmetto Family Council … an evangelical advocacy organization based in Columbia, S.C.
“We want to take a moment and thank the Mayor of Seneca, Dan Alexander, for standing strong against inappropriate attacks on religious freedom,” the group’s leader, Oran Smith, said. “Mayor Alexander has refused to cave under the pressure from a Wisconsin-based organization to remove a memorial cross from public grounds.”
Hmmm …
We don’t really have a view on the cross one way or the other. Its presence at the plant doesn’t offend us, nor do we see it as a government endorsement of a particular religion.
It’s a non-issue in our opinion …
Our beef with Seneca?
The 2015 murder of 19-year-old Zachary Hammond …
We’re still waiting on mayor Alexander to do the “Christian” thing by way of Hammond’s family.
69 comments
Wah, go find one of those safe spaces that’s all the rage with the LBGTXYZ crew.
“Progressive” Constitutional interpretation is always a hoot.
“Congress shall make no law…”
Congress apparently includes Seneca’s city government?
“The right of the people to keep and bear arms…”
Yet, the people doesn’t mean…well, the people?
Well that is an interesting take. So you believe it is perfectly acceptable for a State or Municipality to establish a religion within its borders and outlaw all other religions.
I’m not even Christian, and the frivolity of this is unbelievable.
Crosses have been somewhat generically used as grave markers for hundreds of years, probably even in cases where the decedent may not have been Christian.
I hope the Mayor sticks to his guns on this.
that’s easy for you to say;what about the children
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjrBjdb2T8
LOL! That child looks as though she ate her greens, just like mommy told her to do.
half the theatre ran out
I said it the first time I saw that seen and I’ll say it again: GROSS!
yessir/good movie/holds up
I was 13 when that came out. It took until I was about 24 or so to gather enough balls to watch it.
they can’t win this, this is a memorial, if the person or their family want them to be remembered for their faith, that is free speech.
if the government tried to take down all the markers at national cemeteries, even my liberal ass would go cliven bundy on them.
even my dead partner got last rites/devout catholic
I’m sorry for your loss, 9″.
ty/yeah,well
Right!!!!
…even my liberal ass would go cliven bundy on them…
**chuckles**
Well put, Suh!
Is that what Sececa is doing, establishing a religion? I would like to hear your take, it should be interesting.
No, I am responding to TBG’s take. He apparently is taking the position that only the Federal Government is prohibited from establishing a religion. That the Constitution does not prohibit State and Municipal governments from establishing a religion within their Jurisdiction.
“So you believe it is perfectly acceptable..” but now it is “apparently”…having trouble making a commitment?
I do not understand the question?
I don’t think he was commenting on religion at all, I think he as commenting on how the Constitution is interpreted by progressives. You came out strong, “So you believe it is perfectly acceptable..” but when questioned you backed off with “apparently taking a position..”.
It is not just “Progressives” who believe the Constitution prohibits a State or Municipal governments from establishing a religion within their jurisdiction.
As for coming out strong, I see that I should have put a question mark at the end of my sentence, but otherwise I see no problem with the question I was asking.
The question is fine it just doesn’t fit the comment. You ignored everything but but what you took out of context.
As far a “apparently”, used by speakers or writers to avoid committing themselves to the truth of what they are saying.
Your comments are nonsense. I ignored nothing. Apparently is not used to avoid commitment on anything. It is apparent from the context of TBG’s comments that he believes the Establishment Clause of the Constitution only applies to the Federal Government. I believe he is wrong.
I really do not think you understand this discussion at all. Your comments are reminiscent of Pogo’s. Attacking people instead of intelligently discussing issues. I am moving on.
Ok Flip.
“Progressive” Constitutional interpretation is always a hoot.” There TGB’s context.
shutup
No, in fact, that’s the very thing Jefferson was talking about when he wrote the Danbury Baptists in the famous “Wall of Separation” letter. Connecticut was considering a religious test for state office holders. Religious tests and “state religion” are forbidden – however that does not mean that religious symbols, statements and celebrations must be stricken from the public arena. The Freedom From Religion folks are the atheistic equivalent of the “Inquisition” and just as evil and misguided.
I am not talking about this case, I was questioning TBG’s point, that the Constitution does not prevent the Seneca city government from establishing a religion? I believe it does. He apparently does not. I have no problem with crosses in public places as long as the City allows Stars of David, Muslim symbols, Wiccan Symbols, etc etc. in public places.
Had I seen your note to IDCYDM I wouldn’t have commented. I get what you’re saying now.
Some folks already know about it — a type of commune, monastery, etc. —–
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commune
Insisting on a level playing field in governmental organizations and no tacit endorsements of any particular mythology is “evil and misguided?” And the Inquisition was intolerant?
No one at Clemson that had anything to do with the football program had complained about the football team’s chaplain. Many of the young men on the team can use all of the positive role models they can get and by all accounts, Trapp fits the bill as a positive role model to a tee. The FFR inquisitors are mad about Clemson’s program because Dabo makes no apologies about being an outspoken Christian and he’s been successful.
So you believe it is perfectly acceptable for a State or Municipality to establish a religion within its borders and outlaw all other religions.
Acceptable? No.
Constitutional? Ehhh, maybe.
Though TBG is as big a fan of the slippery slope theory as they come, Seneca placing a cross in memory of the gentleman who lost his life…hardly constitutes the establishment of a religion.
While you probably think that TBG is an animist/snake-handling/Torah-thumper; in reality, TBG is a pro-Christian agnostic (an agnostic who greatly appreciates Western Civilization/Christendom).
Shit like this makes us non-religious folks look petty.
+1000 Try explaining Agnostic Deism to an Imbecile like Pogo. He isn’t even bright enough to Google it. I accept that this Country was founded, PRIMARILY, on Judeo-Christian principle, which the dolt can’t even comprehend.
“Though TBG is as big a fan of the slippery”
This sentence could have been so much more fun.
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When Jesus comes back, do you think he wants to see another cross?
It’s rude. Why do Christians go crazy with all these Roman torture devices?
When you have to get a tattoo of a cross on your forehead to get a job at the water plant then I will join the Cheeseheads in outrage. Until then, they are looking pretty silly.
Will, If you had included a picture of the wall in question this lawsuit would be shown to be even more ridiculous than the written word implies. It is a stone where’s Waldo? Had to do a double take to find it. Also, it may have been photographed at a clever angle but I saw no people being forced to kneel at it.
I googled it up. You’re right, most people would walk right by that wall and never notice it. Definitely a brain teaser type of art – find the hidden image.
I had to look twice myself.
googled it / it’s a quiet tribute to the guy/ tens of thousands of folks could walk by it and not notice it/ I give credit to those who designed and built it because to me it is artistic —– just sayin’
In Wisconsin they probably would honor the guy with a cheese-ball by shellacking it and using it for a bowling ball.
Somebody get that cross outta there!
FFRF…501(c)3 Educational Organization
Jesus never wanted to be associated with earthly kingdoms…
Remember when you could fart in a theater and the worst that would happen would be for those next to you to get up and move – which ironically was the best that could have happened
Had the urge to do so awhile back but then images of being devoured by a horde of space suited PC Police turned the fart into a burp
Amazingly I got a Jesus to my left, an OMG behind me, a damn to my right and someone yelled out, hey buddy why don’t you just shit in your pants the next time
Kinda wished I had just farted – never have experienced a SWAT Team in action up close and personal
Well, if the town has plenty of money to throw away on a Constitutional matter already settled by the Supreme Court, have at it, I guess. The separation of church and state is never important to or understood by the majority within a small community. It is however a significant protection of religious freedom for the minorities.
“…We’re still waiting on mayor Alexander to do the “Christian” thing by way of Hammond’s family….
Beyond forgiving the kid for selling cocaine it the city of Seneca, what “Christian thing” should the mayor be doing?
You missed Folks’ implication. He wants Seneca to acknowledge Hammond’s death as “murder”.
No I didn’t,. Will has taken a stupid and largely indefensible position that the city is somehow responsible for the demise of a drug dealer. I’ll grant that Mr. Hammond shouldn’t be dead right now but he was literally in the driver’s seat on the road to his own death.
I agree entirely. Hammond was a wanna-be thug and a blight on society. If he kept running from the cops like he had been doing, eventually he would have run over an innocent person or two. Then the cops would have been criticized for not catching him. And his family did nothing to stop him after they found out what he was and what he had been doing. He was no more of a choirboy than Michael Brown, both headed down the same path.
If they would be willing to put up a Star of David for a Jewish believer who died at the site: a cresent for a Muslim, a Dharma wheel for a Buddhist, then there is no bias.
This, I believe has been settled by courts concerning painted crosses at highway death locations. They put whatever symbol the family request.
By the way there are atheist symbols too.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist6.htm
I find highway memorials to be extremely tacky and some times due to the proximity to the road shoulder dangerous as well. I won’t drive over the loved ones graves at the cemetery if they will keep the cemetery off the road, deal?
I’ve removed dozens of these crosses that were on the shoulders of public highways in my travels across America. Just keeping America free from trash.
Man you’re a disgusting,soul less lowlife.A person like you that is blasphamous and despises Jesus Christ just wouldn’t understand the pain that a Christian feels about losing a loved one.
Take your fucking car and drive thru a cemetery you sic bastard.
The highway memorials themselves is a separate issue from the religious content. There are Federal cemeteries where publicly paid markers/tombstones are religious.
You’re on a role today with the TRUTH….I will stay out of your lane.
Thank you for this post.
A man was being tailgated by a stressed out woman on a busy boulevard. Suddenly, the light turned yellow, just in front of him. He did the right thing, stopping at the crosswalk, even though he could have beaten the red light by accelerating through the intersection. The tailgating woman was furious and honked her horn, screaming in frustration as she missed her chance to get through the intersection, dropping her cell phone and makeup.
As she was still in mid-rant, she heard a tap on her window and looked up into the face a very serious police officer. The officer ordered her to exit her car with her hands up. He took her to the police station where she was searched, finger printed, photographed, and placed in a holding cell.
After a couple of hours, a policeman approached the cell and opened the door. She was escorted back to the booking desk where the arresting officer was waiting with her personal effects.
He said, “I’m very sorry for this mistake. You see, I pulled up behind your car while you were blowing your horn, flipping off the guy in front of you, and cussing worse than a Drill Sergeant at him.
I noticed the “WHAT WOULD JESUS DO” bumper sticker, the “CHOOSE LIFE” license plate holder, the “FOLLOW ME TO SUNDAY SCHOOL” bumper sticker, and the chrome-plated Christian fish emblem on the trunk. Naturally………. I assumed you had stolen the car!”
Will woke up way too late when he arrived before God and said…”I don’t have a view on the Cross one way or the other”
And as Will arrived in Hell he was eternally lit up just like Zachery…as Will cried out to father Abraham…go tell my bro… !!!
No, Mayor Alexander wants to prolong the inevitable. He wants the Freedom From Religion Foundation to initiate a costly lawsuit which is going to cost the taxpayers thousands of dollars. This kind of bullheadedness on the part of the Mayor is indicative of someone who knows that they can’t win in the end.
I have seen a picture of that cross, embedded in a pattern with other stones.
All I have to say is I bet there will be quite a few laid brick walkways that will be in jeopardy around numerous public buildings.
— even if it looks like a cross, but only accidentally
Yeah, the offense, however disguised as a sidewalk shall not prevail.The offense, no matter how trivial, shall not be allowed to offend any do-gooder.
It is considered “fait accompli”, if any liberal do-gooder even notices it out of the corner of their eye.
In this day and age, you are considered guilty of a affront if the victim walked by and did not even notice the offending arrangement of religious bricks.
Mean while, in Aiken County, the coroner has a stencil and paints a cross on the roadway at the scene of a fatality.And that’s the way us red-necks want it!
YOU BETCHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!