THE RIGHT OUTCOME … THE WRONG WAY
|| By FITSNEWS || In the weeks and months to come, the fallout from the Confederate flag’s removal from the grounds of the S.C. State House will continue to be felt far and wide across the Palmetto political landscape.
And we’ll be there to cover every aftershock …
But before we dive into the seismic impact of what we suspect will be rolling recrimination … a requiem to the flag (whose final wave was captured above) seems in order.
This website didn’t exist during South Carolina’s first debate over the Confederate flag back in 2000. At the time our founding editor Will Folks was pursuing his fantasy of becoming the next Mike Mills – a dream he (and probably every elected official in the Palmetto State) wishes he had never abandoned.
That’s perhaps one reason why we always gazed upon the controversial banner – and other symbolic standards – with indifference.
To us symbols never mattered because they can so easily be manipulated … just like political labels.
“State leaders can leave it, move it, burn it or use it as a bath towel for all we care,” we wrote of the flag back in 2011.
In fact we went so far as to mock organizations like the NAACP which used the issue as a means of leveling economic sanctions against South Carolina.
But then the “Holy City Massacre” – the senseless, premeditated, racially motivated slaughter of nine black churchgoers by a 21-year-old white supremacist – occurred in Charleston, S.C.
All of a sudden our indifference turned to support for the flag’s removal …
Within 48 hours of the tragedy – before the discovery of confessed perpetrator Dylann Storm Roof‘s racist manifesto – this website became the first media outlet in the state to call for the flag to come down.
We wrote …
If the question is one of our indifference versus the legitimate angst of others – then this issue should be a no-brainer. Irrespective of who’s right or wrong from a historical standpoint, why keep something that’s needlessly offending people?
That was our basic view from the beginning, although our founding editor soon coupled it with this history lesson – in which he argued the flag never should have been raised again in the first place (thus enabling it to be hijacked by the likes of Roof and other white supremacists).
The flag honorably laid down at Appomattox should have never been raised again, and the fact it was – in defiance of individual liberty, no less – is not “heritage.” It is a stain on heritage. And the fact nine Americans have now been brutally cut down by a killer claiming this banner as his symbol is – and should be – the last straw.
And it was the last straw.
State leaders not only took the flag down – they ultimately (and overwhelmingly) followed our advice in doing so sooner rather than later while refraining from muddying the issue with potentially divisive compromises.
But that doesn’t mean the process by which the banner was removed was clean, honest or fair.
It was anything but …
For starters, lawmakers and S.C. governor Nikki Haley didn’t take the flag down because it was the right thing to do – they took it down because corporate and political interests told them to take it down. And ironically, the most aggressive flag supporter didn’t fight for his banner for similar reasons.
In other words they were politicians, not leaders.
Next, it has become abundantly clear to us that supporters of the flag – i.e. lawmakers whose position on this issue was repeatedly assailed by this website – were misled by their leaders from the beginning of the debate.
Everyone – even the most diehard flag backer – knew from the moment Roof’s Confederate-themed website was discovered that the banner was on its way down. All they wanted, we’re told, was a chance for their constituents to be heard on the issue – to provide a contrast to the hateful strain of racism Roof embraced.
“We never got that chance,” one lawmaker told FITS. “We all just got lumped into the same category as him.”
In fact we’re told the reason the debate in the S.C. House of Representatives grew so contentious (nearly jeopardizing the banner’s removal) was that flag supporters who had been told the voices of their citizens would be heard were lied to. Repeatedly.
“The flag got hijacked – then its removal got hijacked, too,” the lawmaker added.
So flag supporters fought back as best they could … coming extremely close on several votes to amending the legislation approved by the State. Any amendment could have opened a Pandora’s Box – keeping the banner waving for several more months. Maybe longer.
According to one House leader the original plan – proposed on June 19 by S.C. Rep. Kirkman Finlay – was to immediately send a bill substituting the South Carolina State flag for the Confederate flag to the House judiciary committee. After three days of public hearings, the committee would have sent this bill to the floor of the House – which would have spent a day or two debating it before sending it to the State Senate.
The whole process would have taken two weeks … maybe less.
And the judiciary chairman – an ardent flag supporter – actually supported the proposal as well as the expedited timetable for public debate.
“He wasn’t happy about it but he realized raising the state flag and sending the Confederate flag to the Relic Room was the best outcome possible from his perspective,” one legislative leader told us.
Instead, House leaders deferred action on the flag to the State Senate – which waited until July 6 to take up its bill calling for both the flag and the flagpole to be removed.
We consistently opposed substitute flags … especially after the Senate passed a bill taking the flag down “free and clear.” But it’s hard to imagine the Finlay compromise being voted down by either chamber.
Also it’s hard to imagine it being a bad thing if last Friday – after lowering the Confederate flag – the state flag had been raised in its place.
Imagine the roar of the crowd!
Which brings us to our final point: The disturbing lack of respect shown by flag opponents during last week’s ceremony removing the banner.
Sure, it’s easy to argue the Confederate flag didn’t deserve respect – and maybe it didn’t. As we’ve noted, it certainly should have never been raised from a government building in the first place. Be that as it may, though, there are tens of thousands of tolerant South Carolinians who have never “hated on” anyone due to their skin color – who never killed anyone or called anyone a “n*gger” – who nonetheless felt a familial tie or kinship to the banner.
Those people absolutely did deserve respect … but didn’t get it. In fact the conduct of many flag opponents during the ceremony deliberately disrespected them – just as the process involved in taking the banner down stripped them of their chance to be heard.
Don’t get us wrong: The flag had to come down. And we’re glad it is down. And we expended plenty of our own political capital in the fight to bring it down – losing several friends (and probably several thousand loyal readers) in the process.
But there’s a right way and a wrong way to do something – even when you’re in a hurry to do it. And while the national media is hailing South Carolina for doing something right for a change … the truth is we didn’t.
As the inexorable tug of gravity began weighing on the banner several weeks ago (rightfully sending it into a terminal velocity), it was abundantly clear the outcome of this debate was never in doubt – which makes the manner in which it was undertaken all the less commendable.
The flag had to come down: But those pushing its descent didn’t have to take the pole and ram it up the collective backside of those still clinging to a genuine – albeit misplaced – affinity for the standard. In fact they could have gotten it down quicker – and cleaner – had they shown the same sort of respect they insisted upon receiving themselves throughout this process.
That would have likely created a real moment of unity … as opposed to merely the perception of one.
Palmetto politicians are enjoying a “Kum ba yah” moment on the national stage in the aftermath of the flag’s long-overdue descent, but don’t be fooled: The process by which this noble and necessary objective was achieved has done real damage to the real reconciliation which could have taken place.
163 comments
The flag flew for over half a century as an intentional spit in the face to all our black fellow citizens. A little ruckus at its public demise seems a rather small offense.
Yeh but Fits gotta throw a bone to his fellow “conservatives” here.
He doesn’t give a DAMN about “respect for that worthless rag,but ,really how much agreeing with the NAACP can a “conservative ” stand?
Gotta have something to bitch about
Yes, because returning hate with hate and hypocrisy is always the right thing to do.
Maybe not, but it’s fair. Turnabout is fair play.
You are ridiculous. A total confirmation of everything the flag proponents felt for keeping the flag flying. That’s OK. Bring that racism out in the open. Quit hiding behind closed doors and show the world exactly what you are and what you are all about. This was never about healing or reconciliation. Damn, it is great to see the truth play out.
It was the end of a state-sponsored insult by racists.
Not really. The African American monument is still there.
You deeply hate “them” don’t you?
No, I don’t. But we don’t need *any* monuments at the statehouse.
The statehouse itself is enough of a monument to everyone.
Fine. First take down Tillman (racist terrorist), Sims (Dr. Megele), Byrnes (freedom in Eastern Europe but not here), Thurmond (segregationist agitator), the Confederate “Baron” Hampton on the horse, and most of all the Confederate memorial. And others. Go ahead.
Why first? The AA Monument was only put there as a trade off for the flag, that is now gone.
Take them all down at the same time.
And unfortunately, just the very public beginning of more racism by a group of hypocrites who didn’t learn from their own experience..oh, and very public. So much for moving forward with grace. Total horseshit of course, but I knew to expect it.
Here here.
And let the die-hard flag supporters whine on. Their champions kept me up way too damn late waiting for the inevitable passing of the Senate Bill without their bullshit attached.
Yep,
Not one chorus of “Dixie’ among the throng
That speaks volumes!!!!!!!!
You stayed up for that?
You need more to do…perhaps a hobby of some sort?
Personally…I could have done with more ruckus.
you sound like some buck niggers bitch. take that broke dick out ya ass
You sound like the typical “heritage” flag-fellator after a PBR 12-pack.
Lexington County I take it.
I should have been more polite.
Thank you for your comments, Rep. Pitts.
funkywinkerbein = Max
You are a racist and insult to the human race.
How do you explain all the help Blacks give Democrats and Fritz Hollings?
Great article Will! Let me say however that I never anticipated “reverence” to be shown the flag. These are the same folks who can’t go to a neighborhood swimming pool, high school graduation, IHOP, concerts, little league football game, the mall or anywhere else that 5 or may more gather where the end result does not involve the calling of police. About what I expected.
Swarthy rednecks?
The flag of treasonous slavers deserves respect?
It should have been lowered to the ground and left there to rot
Sherman and Lincoln should be tried for war crimes, dug up “executed” and left on the steps of the US Capital to finish rotting.
Bush and Cheney should similarly be tried and hung at the Hague.
Talk about a rabid, unhinged Bush hater. ..do you recommend the same treatment for all those Democrat congressmen and senators who voted to authorize military force to invade Iraq…let’s be consistent. ..Bush had the same crapoy Intel as Congress…
Garbage. The Dems were LIED TO. Bush and his neocon dregs LIED.
Grape or cherry cool aid?
If only criminal behavior was punishable – Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Condi, Paulsen – as well as the entire Goldman Sachs, and Citibank directorships would be burned, hung and buried in Potters field.
And not one smidge of evidence that the IRS targeted conservative groups! Notta smidge I say! All those emails magically and curiously destroyed forever…
Institutional racism is distinguished from racial bigotry by the existence of institutional systemic policies, practices and economic and political structures which place minority racial and ethnic groups at a disadvantage in relation to an institution’s racial or ethnic majority.
One example is public school budgets (including local levies and bonds) and the quality of teachers, which in the U.S. are often correlated with property values: rich neighborhoods are more likely to be more ‘white’ and to have better teachers and more money for education, even in public schools. Restrictive housing contracts and bank lending policies have also been listed as forms of institutional racism.
Other examples sometimes described as institutional racism are racial profiling by security guards and police, use of stereotyped racial caricatures, the under- and mis-representation of certain racial groups in the mass media, and race-based barriers to gainful employment and professional advancement.
Additionally, differential access to goods, services, and opportunities of society can be included within the term institutional racism, such as unpaved streets and roads, inherited socio-economic disadvantage, and “standardized” tests (each ethnic group prepared for it differently; many are poorly prepared).
Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, known by the Defense Intelligence Agency cryptonym “Curveball”, is an Iraqi citizen who defected from Iraq in 1999, claiming that he had worked as a chemical engineer at a plant that manufactured mobile biological weapon laboratories as part of an Iraqi weapons of mass destruction program. Alwan’s allegations were subsequently shown to be false by the Iraq Survey Group’s final report published in 2004.
Despite warnings from the German Federal Intelligence Service and the British Secret Intelligence Service questioning the authenticity of the claims, the US Government and British government utilized them to build a rationale for military action in the lead up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, including in the 2003 State of the Union address, where President Bush said “we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs”, and Colin Powell’s presentation to the UN Security Council, which contained a computer generated image of a mobile biological weapons laboratory.
They were later found to be mobile milk pasteurization and hydrogen generation trailers. On 24 September 2002, the British government published its dossier on the former Iraqi leader’s WMD with a personal foreword by Mr Blair, who assured readers Saddam Hussein had continued to produce WMD “beyond doubt”.
On November 4, 2007, 60 Minutes revealed Curveball’s real identity.Former CIA official Tyler Drumheller summed up Curveball as “a guy trying to get his green card essentially, in Germany, and playing the system for what it was worth.” He lives in Germany, where he has been granted asylum.
In a February 2011 interview with the Guardian he “admitted for the first time that he lied about his story, then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war.”
1.) JP MORGAN CHASE BANK NA OH
$78.1 trillion OTC derivatives
2.) CITIBANK NATIONAL ASSN
$56.1 trillion OTC derivatives
3.) BANK OF AMERICA NA NC
$53.15 trillion OTC derivatives
4.) GOLDMAN SACHS BANK USA NY
$47.7 trillion OTC derivatives
What about Corzine? O that’s right…a bundler for Democrats who apparently disappeared billions without a trace of mainstream media outcry…
From the cheap seats came an unearthly howl, like a centipede with a pair of lungs, having 98 legs chopped off, producing an eerie, surreal quality, like when you’re on vacation in another city and Jeopardy comes on at 7:00 p.m. instead of 7:30.
Do you communicate with bugs often?
I wouldn’t call it “communication,” more like “derision.”
SECTION 16-17-530. Public disorderly conduct.
Any person who shall (a) be found on any highway or at any public place or public gathering in a grossly intoxicated condition or otherwise conducting himself in a disorderly or boisterous manner, (b) use obscene or profane language on any highway or at any public place or gathering or in hearing distance of any schoolhouse or church or (c) while under the influence or feigning to be under the influence of intoxicating liquor, without just cause or excuse, discharge any gun, pistol or other firearm while upon or within fifty yards of any public road or highway, except upon his own premises, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars or be imprisoned for not more than thirty days.
That statute just eliminated college football in this state.
Could someone provide an example of the disrespect that was shown? I’ve stayed the hell away from the State House over the past 3 weeks and I’m genuinely curious.
This video from WIS-TV should explain it all.
http://www.wistv.com/clip/11669449/raw-confederate-flag-removed-from-state-house
It must be a weird feeling to be a nasty shit and then show the world that you’re proud of it.
..by flying a nasty shit flag at the seat of power for half a century.
A flag to which that no intelligent, mature person should ever attach significance.
I am pleased the flag is down, but I do not kid myself; it was a waste of time and effort and a study in how the lowest common denominator controls the debate of this country.
Only if we abdicate dominance of the field.
That’s a “proverb” worth remembering………….
— and those folks were nasty shits when the sun went down that evening and they were still nasty shits when the sun rose the next morning and their very actions day to day will confirm that they will continue to be nasty shits…..
Just remember class that it was race-baiting DEMOCRATS who placed the Confederate flag up…and REPUBLICANS who brought it down…
DEMOCRATS
——-
if you’re trying to look smart – you just failed.
Yeah, we know about all that. The racist Dems became racist DixieCrats, but that didn’t work out, so most of them became racist Republicans. pogo, quit trying to play that, it just makes you look all the more stupid.
What did you really expect would happen? Typical behavior. Exactly what I would think opponents would do. Racism is only racism in one direction with this group and when they are racist it is a-ok! Welcome to reality not fantasyland.
Just stopped by to say hi. They have better WiFi at the Confederate Relic Room and Military Museum than at the State House. I might be on more often. My buddies pole and fence are here too, looks like they are going to be hanging out with me on display.
Inside or outside?
Yes…….however, those that never advocated for white supremacy, or fought for segregated schools *after* Brown v. Board of Education, and never called anyone a “n*gger” and etc., *never* acknowledge why the flag was flown, and allowed to continue flown. You want to own the good parts of the symbol, you get what comes with it, it never was a buffet.
The real history of the saga of *the* flag is here:
http://www.thestate.com/opinion/op-ed/article26889922.html
One thing to consider; had Beasley been successful with his efforts to take the flag off the dome, and won re-election, we never would have had Jim Hodges as Governor for one miserable term, who of course spawned Mark Sanfraud for 2 miserable terms, who with his case kept Trikki Nikki on the air at the end of the Primary for her first term, we wouldn’t be suffering from 2 miserable terms from her.
So, the flag supporters are directly responsible for Hodges, Sanfraud X 2, and Haley X 2, twenty long years of incompetence from the Governor’s Mansion thanks to a flag flown as a middle finger to the civilized world, as concocted by a then Representative from Aiken, Rep. May who wore his Confederate Uniform to a commission formed to plan the state’s Centennial observance. It would appear that Corporal Corley, (R)-Burnettown, has taken Rep. May’s place 65 years later.
______________________________________________________
“Our story begins with Daniel W. Hollis, a history professor at the University of South Carolina, author of a two-volume history of the university, and grandson of a Confederate officer, who was appointed by Governor Ernest Hollings in 1959 to serve on a commission to plan the state’s Centennial observance. “I was the only Civil War historian,” he recalled in a 1999 interview; and “John May was chairman.” May, a member of the state legislature from Aiken, “called himself `Mr. Confederacy’
and wore a Confederate uniform to our meetings.” There were also three delegates from the United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC). Hollis was consistently outvoted. “I tried to get them to call it the ‘Civil War Centennial,’” he said, “but they insisted on calling it the `Confederate War Centennial.’” May and the UDC representatives also insisted that “the war wasn’t fought over slavery but states’ rights.” Hollis countered that “it was over the states’ right to own slaves and enforce
white supremacy. . . . The ruling elite that ran this state all owned slaves. Without the slavery issue South Carolina would not have seceded.” Nonetheless, May told the group he would introduce a resolution to raise the flag over the capitol dome and fly it for a year. Hollis said “I was against the flag going up”; but by the time May
introduced his resolution in 1962, the flag had been fluttering over the State House for nearly a year.”
Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/opinion/op-ed/article26889922.html#storylink=cpy
Not only that, we’d have not had that ridiculous AA monument. Sometimes it really does pay to think about the long term effects of a stupid compromise.
has done real damage to the real reconciliation which could have taken place.
———–
appeasement is the only path
WWII showed us that
..and at the end of the war, we should have never bombed Dresden, or used the Atomic Bomb.
This comment is vulgar, hate filled gibberish. It is designed to inflame some and decide us all.
What a persecution-complex loon.
crushed beneath the cross of Jesus.
That’s my cross eyed bear.
Aye, cross bear… er..
I think I get your drift – In Frank Zappa kind of way……………..
I felt, after reading it as posted, that I may have dwelled too long on the black keys and flirted too much with the Sikah trichord… now that you mention it, Frank might have been a peripheral inspiration.
The flag supporters were better behaved than fans at a football game. A minority of them were chanting cheers. The flag supporters were especially well behaved.
I don’t know what Will is talking about. Everything went fine. I live in the Upstate where flag support is strong and only saw one car with a Confederate flag mounted on it since Emanuel AME.
I thought the debates in the Senate and House were civil. Both passed it with overwhelming majorities. South Carolina came out of this crisis with greater respect from the nation and the world. The only losers were the KKK and Lee Bright, but they were losers already.
It wasn’t a football game for one so that’s not the measure of behavior. It was supposed to dignified, so I’d suggest that a changing of the guards at the Tomb of the Unknows would be a better example.
Watch the video from WIS it wasn’t a minority of the flag opponents it was the vast majority at least the vast majority on the grounds around the monument.
Bible Thumper was responding to Scrappy’s statement about the football game, so he was not the one who brought it up.
I contend that people are under no obligation to behave one way or another at such an event. It was a public event. The public were there. Some chanted, some cheered, some taunted, etc. Stuff crowds do.
How the hell long are we going to go on having to hear about how the crowd behaved?
That exactly the problem Buzz! There should not have to be a “book” issued on how to behave in public. Whether it be a football game or at the IHOP for breakfast. People should not need a book to be respectful of others. It’s just upbringing and class. Pure and simple!
Obviously until we get an apology and some sort of concession from the Legislature.
There parents should have taught them class and decorum, it’s exceedingly clear they did not.
How may different ways are y’all gonna find to say you think they’re a bunch of classless “n*****s?” The flag should have stayed furled forever, per the instructions of General Lee, following the war. Some of the people raising hell out there might have had aunts and uncles and grandparents who were lynched by mouth-breathing redneck vigilante terrorist who waved that flag. They owed nobody any “respect” whatsoever at that ceremony.
Except that many of the chanters, singers, etc were of the lighter persuasion. It was a mixed group.
Look, I went from staunch supporter to ambivalent to just take it down and get it over with pretty quickly. I believe that people should act appropriate at a ceremony. Even the Northern army didn’t cheer and gloat after 4 years of bitter war when the R. E. Lee’s Army presented its formal surrender at Appomattox. Manners aren’t hard no matter what your politics.
Hey Boz-show that video of YOU walking into the Myrtle Beach City Council meeting and asking the mayor to resign.
Now that was a lesson on acting ‘appropriate’ according to the news reporting.
You are a clown.
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/incoming/article16615442.html
There is a rule book. It is caused civility. It doesn’t need to be written down. It should be taught in the home at a young age.
Nikki Haley is a loser in this.
I’m a loser too, but that’s all the time.
If you give one whit about the Flag, you will never again cast one single vote for anyone who voted to take down the flag. That is the only answer. If you do, then you are voting in support what was done, and you are no different than the person you voted for. Its that simple. You can’t have ti both ways. You can’s support the Flag and what it stands for and the person who voted to take down.
One vote out of many ? If you find the politician that you agree with 100% let me know. I don’t even agree with myself 100% of the time. As long as they get it right 80% or better you had better feel lucky. This was also a no win vote .
Cowards will crumble. As they did here. They were never real supporters of the Flag in the first place, they pretended to support it for votes. Anyone who voted to take down the Flag must be opposed. He will vote again to relegate all of our history to the trash heap. This was a no win on political basis only. These people made a political calculation that they would benefit more by abandoning those who voted them into power than by supporting them. If they are right the vote of people who support Southern Heritage will be meaningless. But they need to pay the price they bargained for. We need to vote against them. Better to get them out of office now, so that someone else can take their place.
Either the person that defeats them will support us or the next person who steps up to run for their seat will support us. We can replace the entire Legislature in 4 years. We cannot allow them to stay in place and do more damage. We must do what we can to replace them and that means voting them out of office, so that someone better can take their place. No quarter!!
RougeElephant, I’ll never up vote you again. Well, just this one time, but never again.
Most of us are lucky if we agree with 50% of what a politician does, but people do have the right to expect 100% support on some things, and should voice their opinion at the polls if they don’t get it. There are lines you can’t cross without consequences. So let the consequences begin.
I wish you the very best in this endeavor.
Thank you, And the same to you in whatever your endeavor may be. If those who voted to take down the flag are correct, my endeavor is a lost cause, but the fight will still be an honorable one.
Perhaps the best I can do at this point is to purge from State Government, those who will abandon and white wash the rest of our history if they believe it to be politically expedient. That will be enough.
There is far FAR more than the Civil War intentionally distorted in “official” history, textbook history. You have a big job. I tell middle and high schoolers that they are now being taught their national folk myths, but that later they can learn much more perspective and detail.
When I was in grade school, we were basically taught the old “happy dancing darkies on the plantation” crap that was not much different from Disney’s Song of the South. THAT was the revisionist history. Now the truth is being told. I don’t care whether or not the federal government has brought this about. There is more than enough evidence of the pure evil of the institution of slavery, in the journals and official records of the day. Also in the recorded words of the slaves themselves, as in the oral history projects. I suppose some would try to say those former slaves were coached and taught great acting skills to further the “Yankee”/progressive agenda. But that’s bullshit, and all of you know it.
I remember hearing one of those recordings and the former slave stated he would prefer death to going back to being a slave.
If right wingnut talk radio had any balls at all they would play that every day…………Along with “Dixie” but if they are part of Entercom Broadcasting or other “corporate broadcasting” they would get yanked instantly
Corporate right wingnut talk radio is so fake it ain’t even funny!!!!
Which makes it so amusing to those who know that it is fake and that the dumbshits who tune into it every day and lap it up are the true “sheeple”
All this “purging” shit sounds kinda like Nazi shit to me…….
Than again, a lot of neo-confederates are Nazi sympathizers anyway…………..
I thank God the inbreeding in my own ancient Southern family did not have the same result it obviously did in yours.
And what result is that?
Ignorant obsession over the flag General Robert E. Lee stated several times needed to be furled forever. I honor the service to protect hearth and home, by my ancestors who served in the CSA forces. But I obviously missed those warp genes that cause that obsession. Don’t spit everywhere I go, either.
Eternally grateful.
No obsession over the Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The Bonnie Blue would have been acceptable.
But really I knew what you were thinking. I just wanted one more person who supported taking down the flag to show everyone who opposed it what you think of them. That you believe they are inbred morons. Not people proud of their history. That way they know, there really is no basis for discussion with people like you. We are on our own! There can be no quarter. We must never support anyone who voted to take down the flag; because just like you, they believe we are morons who have no choice but to vote for them.
I don’t normally side with Buzzman but I think you misunderstand his comment. I don’t think he believes everyone that supports the flag is a racist. I think he understands the emotions on both sides of the issue.
But your scorched earth policy of never vote for anyone that supported the flag makes you seem like a narrow minded simpleton. It makes you (not everyone that supports the flag) but you personify the guy on the mud flaps yelling, “Lee surrendered, I didn’t.” Nobody takes that guy seriously.
Cowards. All politics no principals. You are just the type of voter these people want. You will vote for them even as they screw you. Well, those of us who are not Cowards will not be held hostage. We will not sit by and watch these people re-elected without a fight. If they are rewarded for their actions all of our history is at risk. And we sure as heck can depend on cowards like you. To fight back. We will never, ever vote for anyone who voted to take down the flag.
I am posting this from my phone as an unregistered. Who will you vote for then?
I have plenty of redneck moron kin myself who see that flag as sacred.. They call me a “n****r-loving commie, every chance they get. We share genes, but they seem to me to be a breed apart, and not one that does the human race proud. I was lucky, in that my parents raised me to truly see all people as equal. The Stars and Stripes was the only flag we revered. They may have been raised, themselves, to use “John Brown” as a curse, but they grew in consciousness beyond that. I benefitted from that, greatly, in that I am able to fully empathize with those who felt victimized by the blatant affront of what was to them a symbol of hatred and violence toward them, flying in front of that Statehouse every day.
I have long supported my family and friends in the SCV in caring for the graves of the Civil War veterans, especially those who were my ancestors. Also, in getting nice stones to replace those that have only wooden markers, stones which memorialize their service and sacrifice. I support them in these efforts, and will attend ceremonies and such, but I will never accept the invitations to join the organization. Southern Partisan has run too many articles that are nothing more than justifications for owning keeping human beings as work animals. Too many of them I’ve talked too make the bullshit claim that slaves were well treated, and that severe beatings and rapes were rare to the point of being almost non-existent. That the good Southern white men who owned slaves would never have cheated on their sainted wives with a slave — despite an overwhelming number of slave-descended blacks that I know of through the various genealogical groups I’m involved in showing clear descent from the owners of their ancestors.
So spare me the bullshit borne of your righteous judgement on me for not being a neo-Confederate with a yearning for the moonlight and magnolias fantasy of the Antibellum Sounthland. I’ve heard it all, and I’m sick to death of it.
Well posted..
Let’s also not forget that the Confederacy DRAFTED men into service just like the UNION did
So before some of you who wax poetic over the men who served, many were NOT volunteers but conscripts (some under severe duress)
That’s how “Dark Corner” here in the Upstate got part of it’s reputation – a haven for deserters from the Confederate Army..
So much for the “Solid South” and the romance OF “The Lost Cause” (which was a fabrication anyway)
Don’t sell yourself short.
your no southernor . gobacktoohio.troll
Then will you only vote a candidate that promises to replace the flag?
I will never understand single issue voters.
I expect there will be people of principal who will run. If not we can write in. But we must never ever vote for anyone who voted to take down the flag. If you do you are just like them. You are supporting there actions.
Thankfully, Most people aren’t simplistic single issue voters.
Maybe most of us aren’t as cowardly as you. Who is to say who will be better. The Democrats ran this state for decades. Most of us were better off when they were in charge and they did not take down the flag. Put Republican cowards in charge and the flag comes down and the economy sucks. So I say we need to get rid of everyone who voted to take the flag down regardless of party. Cowards like you and the people who voted to take down the flag will destroy our history if we let you.
Who is the “us” and “we” that you speak of? Do you speak for yourself or for a group? How large of a group? Is this an organized group or an imaginary group? Or did you just decide that others must think as you do, so you appointed yourself the leader of this group?
_________________________________________________________
Why is it so important to you for the flag to be on the State House Grounds? Did you know that it may be flown outdoors at the Relic Room? How often did you visit the flag/memorial on the State House Grounds?
Just drove by. Goober day at the former flag pole. Nine standard size Klanfederate flags being waved. The wavers somehow didn’t appear to be the scions of former southern aristocracy. But there were a number of impressive bellies.
bellies belie bellicose belligerents.
Bucolic blowhards is my best guess.
I saw 3 rather corpulent individuals waving several variations of the flag this afternoon…perhaps they were also protesting yesterday’s defacement of the Charleston Confederate memorial at the Battery Park…
SOUTH CAROLINA HAS BEEN RENAMED: SOUTH OHIO.
You can change that with your next vote. We must never again cast a vote for anyone who voted to take down the flag.
In 1865, the 10th Amendment was killed and states become mere federal administrative districts.
Today, states have no rights.
NONE.
Welcome to the United STATE of America, comrade.
So who will you vote for? Will you only vote for a candidate that promises to put the flag back?
It is interesting to me that a handful of rednecks has such power of soft sigh. He seems a full time poster and there is no end to his outrage.
My clinical diagnosis is that soft sigh, a squat little man, feels threatened by a man with a bit of size and testosterone running through his body.
I believe the rednecks own soft’s soul. Well, I do bless his little girlie heart.
I expect that “Max” is really rather diminutive.
Certainly a trifle intellectually.
That is the best you got?
That tells me I was right on target.
The only applause you will ever hear is your own, that’s clear.
You are not very good at this.
It is inconceivable that you can post on fits, hour after hour after hour, pouring such hate filled drivel into your comments as if it mattered.
There is something wrong with you, terribly, terribly wrong.
I must go now. Like 99.999% of the people on the planet, I have productive and enjoyable things to do.
But hey, you keep up the great work. You certainly are influencing millions!
Max seems somehow unnaturally drawn to me.
Toilet paper, apparently – acquired at a public rest facility, stuck to the sole.
This is that thing’s Modus operandi, and a few times it has managed to be irritating. But anymore, I just ignore it. There are a few on this blog that just come in on comments, not debating the issue, just calling people names. I don’t think they are smart enough to address the issue, They are limited in their capabilities and can only name-call. Took me a little while to recognize them and they are mere pimples on the ass of progress. And there are also some people in that group that come in other different names. They have nothing to contribute, except their disdain for common sense.
There’s nothing wrong with you that excision of literary adipose tissue wouldn’t fix.
For those who died
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcflwUYYoXk
Everyone has had their say, can we move on now?
You are mistaken. The curtin just fell on the first act.
Only if people like you on your side and others like you on the other side keep pushing. Making it the first act speaks volumes about the contempt you all have for each other.
What is my side?
Oh, I forgot you make up your own definitions for words, so it’s not surprising you would ask that question.
I often wish that the definition of the word “Republican” could be defined by their actions, instead of by “the party of Lincoln”
Where would South Carolina find smart, well intentioned, realistic (practical), unencumbered (including by homogeneous constituencies), and open-minded persons to help plot a way forward? And when found from their sparse scattering, how could we concentrate them where they are not simply shouted down by the highly opinionated know-nothings and woe-is-me’s?
Of course, from the inchoate hate of Republican historians, desperately in need of a scapegoat.
In the end, I think the way this episode played out was about as smoothly as anyone could ask for. There are some sticky points to get past, but they will be put on the table, and hopefully peacefully resolved.
First of all, no one or no thing is responsible for what Roof did except himself. The flag did not cause it, the gun did not cause it, his family did not cause it,.. his own demented mind drove his mental state into committing the crime.
The forgiveness offered by the members of the families killed and the church members was an extraordinary act of tolerance. The ‘taking down’ of the flag was a needed display of reconciliation of behalf of the people by the State of SC. If nothing else, it took some of the ‘edge’ off tempers on both sides.
So, let us put the cap on it, put it to rest, and move along. There will still be tensions and differences on both sides. The passion will not disappear for the flag, and the taunting from the left will not disappear.
The friction will not go away anytime soon, lives will not be materially changed, and blaming the flag for your status in life can now be dismissed. Both groups need to look inward for a solution to that problem.
The Council of Conservative Citizens helped cause it.
You’ve got a point there……..
That is what I and others have stated repeatedly in the comments on this site. The disrespect of the take it down crowd has done to harm race relations than the removal of the flag did to improve race relations. That’s why there is such a thing with dignity. The flag supporters that attended the ceremony lost with dignity. The take it down supporters that showed up and acted disrespectfully did not act with dignity.
+10
The flag-idolaters seem too busy plotting against their white turncoat legislators to turn up their already considerable hate for black people.
Don’t be so general in your condemnation. There are some very good, non-racist people that support the flag. It is those that are so blinded by hatred for those that voted to remove it that are causing problems for the rest. There are fanatics on both sides of the debate.
Criticizing all flag supporters with such a broad brush puts you in the fanatic category for your side and pushes some on the other side in to the fanatic category.
If we allow the fanatics to control the debate then we will never find closure on the issue.
Reason and common sense don’t fly here.
Nor does full literacy.
“Idolater” is a restrictive identifier term, it excludes others and possibly the majority of nominal supporters. Maybe read it as “fanatic.”
There are some very good, non-racist people that support the flag.
——
mighty white of you to admit that without a gun to your head (this time)
If you believe otherwise then you are part of the problem.
The flag-idolaters seem too busy plotting against their white turncoat legislators to turn up their already considerable hate for black people.
——–
Never too distracted to find time for the important things.
You expected otherwise ? LOL
The disrespect of the take it down crowd has done to harm race relations
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damn racist liberal Democrats – what do they know about the South, or racism?
It’s not about what they know about the south or racism. It’s what they know about class, dignity, and racism. It was a minority of the people that acted that way but it was highly counterproductive to solving the problems.
soft cy i got chunks of you in my stool. in other news naacp lifts boycott . wait there was one ?. and george w. carver invented 100 thing to do with a peanut. golf clap
This rhetoric is nothing but bullshit
As far as I’m concerned Sherman’s forces should have pulled a “Carthage” on Columbia and the rest of populated South Carolina back in 1865.
By God, South Carolina started it and should have paid for the outcome in spades………….
As far as I’m concerned, South Carolina got off easy
Yet how it does whine.
South Carolina excels in whining and blame laying……………
South Carolina “pride” my hillbilly ass…………..
Woe is me!
…some small consolation is appreciated before their big sulfur coda.
These racists will have many comrades in Hell.
…stealing white hot coals from one another, piling them up for bragging rights.
Lee could have Carthaged Washington, DC after Bull Run…but he desperately wanted peace…not destruction…unlike Sherman who targeted civilians…burning down churches, schools, hospitals, and houses. ..
Other than dumping salt in the fields Sherman did pull a Carthage…the pics I have seen of Columbia post Sherman look pretty similar to Nagasaki…nuthin’ but rubble…Sherman did a magnificent job of reducing houses, schools, libraries, and churches to broken bricks and smoldering ruins…not to mention what his troops did to the women…
http://www.wltx.com/longform/news/local/2015/07/11/confederate-battle-flag-new-home-relic-room/30013489/
I have learned an important matter from the many posts related to the flag. Some Klanfederates are VERY irritated by the African-American memorial on the statehouse grounds (though highly outnumbered by Confederates and segregationists). It is so innocuous and unassuming that only racist hate can explain the animosity. But in any case I hope not to let that convenient prickly irritation go to waste.
Just as toast always falls butter-side down, let it be that tripping Republicans impale hateful eyes upon convenient pointy objects – such as sharp sticks, needles and letter openers.
Simply put, more hate from Soft and euwe.
They hate us because they hate themselves. That is the way hate works. Racist, progressives…does not matter. Irrational hate is self-hatred.
I went to school in the liberal North, worked for years in the progressive Bay area, and I have seen it a 1000 times. The more progressive the hater, the more likely to have beaten his wife on a regular basis.
You see, small men deal with hate by asserting control over others. Soft and euwe are here to assert control over us. It gives their lives meaning.
In reality, they are losers, mired in their on emotional and intellectual poverty, looking to blame others for their failings. It is a game they play over and over, until, if we are lucky, someone runs them over in the street as they go to a to a party celebrating transgender parents of dwarf negro vegans that copulate with hamsters at public schools.
Simply put
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clearly beyond this one’s reach
Confederate grey uniforms.
This much is true The conflagrations of some 150 years ago … Still burns brightly in some men’s hearts. When mankind can learn from the past rather than harboring it in their bosom… Truly then can we get some much needed closure. But whether the confederate flag flies over the dome of the state house or it malingers in the state museum relic room. Men’s hearts are unchanging.
Until you get past the history that the confederate flag represents to so many – you’re condemned to repeat said history
Will it take 150 more years to forget the tragedies of the past? Maybe that and more so
However.
I don’t know any other nation that allows the losing side in a civil war … Or any war, to fly their flag?!?
South Carolina could’ve been dealt with much more harshly had the northern aggressors chosen to do so.
South carolina has had its run
They need to simmer down now.