BECAUSE THERE ARE QUITE A FEW OF THEM …
|| By FITSNEWS || South Carolina has faced two major controversies over the Confederate flag in the last fifteen years.
The first ended in 2000 with a fragile compromise, while the second – inspired by a horrific, racially motivated church shooting in Charleston, S.C. – is currently awaiting resolution.
Oddly, in both cases the debate revolves around banners which can lay no claim to being “the Confederate flag” – even though both of the flags in question were used in various capacities by military assets of the Confederate States of America.
More on that in a bit. First, here are the six official “Confederate flags …”
***
OFFICIAL REBEL BANNERS
1. The first formal “Confederate flag” was flown from March 4, 1861 – May 21, 1861 over the dome of the Confederacy’s first capital in Montgomery, Alabama. Designed by German/Prussian artist Nicola Marschall, this flag – known as the “Stars and Bars” – was modeled after the flag of the Austrian empire, with the seven stars representing the first seven states to join the Confederacy (South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas).
(Click to enlarge)
2. The second national flag of the Confederacy (below) flew from May 21, 1861 – July 2, 1861. It’s the same design as the first, with stars added for Virginia and Arkansas. It flew over Confederate capitals in Montgomery, Alabama and Richmond, Virginia …
(Click to enlarge)
3. The third version of the “Stars and Bars” (below) flew over the Richmond capital from July 2, 1861 – November 28, 1861. It featured eleven stars (reflecting the addition of Tennessee and North Carolina to the Confederacy).
(Click to enlarge)
4. The fourth and final version of this flag (below) flew over the Richmond capital from November 28, 1861 – May 1, 1863. It contained thirteen stars (reflecting the Confederacy’s claims over Kentucky and Missouri).
(Click to enlarge)
5. The first Confederate flag to bear any resemblance to the banners being debated today was the so-called “Stainless Banner” (below), which flew over the Richmond capital from May 1, 1863 – March 4, 1865. This flag was approved because many Confederate loyalists believed the “Stars and Bars” too closely resembled the “Stars and Stripes” flown by the federal government.
This flag was designed by Savannah, Georgia newspaper editor William T. Thompson – who called it the “White Man’s flag” named for the large white field accompanying the corner
“As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism,” Thompson wrote of his banner, adding that “another merit in the new flag is that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals.”
(Click to enlarge)
6. The sixth and final Confederate flag (below) – known as the “Blood-stained Banner” – flew from March 4, 1865 until the fall of Richmond in early April 1865. It was designed by Confederate major Arthur L. Rogers, who was concerned that the “Stainless Banner” could be interpreted by the Confederacy’s enemies as a sign of surrender. Barely a month after it was approved by the Confederate Congress, though, Richmond fell. And days later, Confederate general Robert E. Lee‘s Army of Northern Virginia surrendered to Ulysses S. Grant’s Army of the Potomac – effectively ending the War Between the States.
(Click to enlarge)
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OTHER FLAGS OF SECESSION
Now that you know your official Confederate flags, which rebel banners have flown in South Carolina? Well, there have been quite a few of them actually.
First there was the Bonnie Blue flag (below) – which was flown by Confederate forces during the Battle of Fort Sumter in April, 1861.
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South Carolina also flew a sovereignty flag (below) …
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… a secession flag (below, from the Charleston Custom House) …
(Click to enlarge)
… a variant of the current state flag (below) …
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… and eventually the current state flag (below, which was briefly the national flag of South Carolina prior to its decision to join the Confederacy).
(Click to enlarge)
Confused yet?
Good … because we haven’t even gotten to the banners at the heart of the 2000 and 2015 controversies.
***
FLAGS OF CONTEMPORARY CONTROVERSY
In 1861, a Walterboro, S.C. native and ardent secessionist named William Porcher Miles designed a flag which he hoped would be adopted by the Confederacy. It wasn’t. It did, however, become a Confederate battle flag. This banner – often mistakenly referred to as the “Stars and Bars” – is officially referred to as the “Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia,” and it is the flag at the heart of the 2015 controversy.
This flag has flown continuously on the north lawn of the S.C. State House ever since a bipartisan, biracial compromise moved another version of the Confederate flag off of the dome of the S.C. State House (and from within the chambers of the S.C. House of Representatives and State Senate) in January of 2000.
(Click to enlarge)
The flag at the heart of the 2000 controversy was the second of two Confederate States Navy (CSN) flags, or “jacks” – a.k.a. maritime flags flown by warships at the head of the vessel during ceremonial appearances or port calls. It’s worth noting “jacks” are not the official naval battle ensigns, as those flags closely mirrored the designs of the national flags.
Here’s the first Confederate “Naval Jack,” which was in service from 1861-1863.
(Click to enlarge)
The second “Naval Jack,” which was in service from 1863-1865, was the flag flown from the dome of the S.C. State House (and inside the chambers of the S.C. House of Representatives and State Senate) from 1961-2000. It was raised in protest of the Civil Rights movement and was taken down on July 1, 2000 in the aftermath of national pressure generated during the 2000 “First in the South” presidential primary election.
Here’s that familiar flag, which is the banner most commonly referred to as “the Confederate flag,” and which is also commonly mistaken for the “Stars and Bars.”
It’s also the flag which appeared on the roof of the “General Lee,” an orange 1969 Dodge Charger which was featured prominently in the hit CBS show The Dukes of Hazzard – which aired from 1979-1985.
(Click to enlarge)
Worth noting, this second Naval Jack is virtually identical to the Confederate battle flag adopted by the Army of Tennessee – which surrendered to the U.S. Army commanded by William T. Sherman’s on April 17-18 near Durham Station, North Carolina (one week after Lee surrendered to Grant).
Here’s that flag …
(Click to enlarge)
.
***
Each and every one of these banners is part of South Carolina’s history – and part of the history of the United States. And there are individuals with nary a racist bone in their bodies who revere these flags – and who display them with no intention other than honoring the memory of ancestors who fought under their colors. Also many (if not most) of these memorialized ancestors weren’t slaveowners – but rather poor people fighting against what they believed to be an unjust intrusion on their sovereignty.
But there is no denying the root cause of the War Between the States was the South’s desire to continue the mass enslavement of black Americans.
There is also no denying the Confederate flag was hoisted by white Democrats in South Carolina a hundred years after the end of the Civil War in direct contravention of efforts to extend civil liberties to black Americans.
Furthermore, there can be no denying that the flag has been co-opted by present-day radicals like 21-year-old Dylann Storm Roof – hate-filled individuals who are intent on using deadly violence (committed under the auspices of the flag) to divide Americans against each other along racial lines.
For these reasons, we’ve called for version of the Confederate flag currently flying on the grounds of the S.C. State House to come down.
“Whatever people think the Confederate flag stands for, perception is reality – and the reality is it’s being used as the calling card for a dangerous, deadly new strain of racism, one intent on depriving black Americans of the most fundamental liberty of all: The right to a beating heart,” we wrote a few days ago.
And this site places individual liberty above all else … no matter the color, creed, gender or sexual orientation of the individual.
90 comments
This is my favorite
http://mikeruiz.org/files/jasper-johns-flag-caf1000v2with-flag-outline-caf-web.jpg
Well, there seems to be a design or picture hidden there but it eludes me (and I am currently caffeine free). Watcha’ got there, 9inches?
Jasper Johns’ seminal work Flag from the collection of the late author Michael Crichton sold for $28.6 million at a New York City auction
Extended Flag, 2011
Jasper Johns’ Flag with area added around the image then put through Content-Aware Fill
Inkjet Print on Canvas
100 x 150cm
Extensions, 2010-2011
A series of images with white area added to the sides and then put through Content-Aware Fill (a Photoshop CS5 tool that automatically generates content based on the existing content of the image and fills in the surrounding blank space). The resulting image is an extended view as interpreted by the software.
OK, now I remember seeing it a few years ago but it didn’t register with my tired, old eyes….
you’re forgiven – this isn’t Jasper John’s work…
It’s a worthless interpretation of his work by a eclectic graphics engine with dubious parameters.
This is the 28.6 million dollar flag.
http://www.moma.org/collection_images/resized/377/w500h420/CRI_136377.jpg
ya’ got me on the first one, although it did look familiar — perhaps I need caffeine and will look again…
please don’t make me wrong again.
Jasper Johns did many ‘flag’ paintings.One of my art professors was his roommate -J Bardin -The one euwe is talking about recently sold for 36 million
Here’s another
http://db-artmag.com/cms/upload/70/news/johns/15_FlagII_B.jpg
yes, I’ve seen that one before, and it is a pleasant one to look at…
It’s probably my favorite.I prefer Bardin’s work,to tell the truth but he didn’t become a big deal like Johns.Bardin was more an abstract expressionist,and didn’t care for pop art,the most famous practioner being Warhol.My favorite Warhol works are from his late period.Here’s one
http://www.paetau.com/downloads/Andy/Andy-Dateien/image004.jpg
That one is unique, and also pleasant to look at. It’s the sort of art that I see the entire work as a whole but without defining any particular item. Also, I know what pleases me but I couldn’t say why. I hear folks discuss certain art movements, or periods, or styles. I just know what I like. For example, my daughter lived with her boyfriend at UGA, and he was a computer/engineering/space (?) major. But he also painted some neat stuff.
I have his painting of an Indian, bare chested, holding a weathered buffalo skull over his head, and there are five more skulls on the ground at his feet. The view is on a bluff or mesa looking out at a small red mesa in the far distance. He is standing in a narrow, tall opening which goes higher than his head. It’s the only original art work I have that’s not my portrait. Whenever I look at it I wonder what he is thinking and why he has those skulls. But I do like it!
That’s all that matters.Being a ‘serious’ artist means breaking new ground,and trying to do something that’s never been done before.Putting a 36 million dollar price tag on a work is more about business than art.There are plenty of unknown artists doing excellent work.In the end,it’s one big crap shoot;)
I feel infinitely smart now. Thanks Will. What’s the rumors telling you from inside the State House today?
“Perception is reality” is a poor line of reasoning:
https://southcarolina1670.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/deep-debate-cast-aside-for-quick-decisions-based-on-perception/
“Perception is reality” is a poor line of reasoning:
——–
The problem with that statement is you can’t know when it isn’t.
Don’t forget the martini glass with the crescent moon garnish. Or the one that looks like someone just ripped the leg off of a chicken. I knew some real solid bros and hos that partied hardy under those flags.
That crescent looks kinda…. Muslim…. should we be worried about a Sharia revolution from seceding Southern States?
Will they use IEDs and not wear uniforms this time?
It is a “crescent shape” reflecting the Gorget worn as a piece of armor and badge of rank around the neck.
From my private blog:
WHAT THE &@^# IS A GORGET?
A gorget is a steel or leather collar designed to protect the throat. It was a feature of older types of armor and we still wear a throat protector on our modern IBA armor today. Beginning in the 18th century, the gorget became primarily ornamental, serving only as a symbolic accessory on military uniforms. G. Washington wore one as a badge of rank during the French and Indian War. South Carolina Soldiers adapted the gorget into a stylized cap badge during the revolutionary war and it eventually became part of the South Carolina state flag.
not proven.
Believe what you want – here is the cap and cap badge from the 2nd South Carolina Regiment. http://www.tigernet.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=1040591
Moultrie wore a gorget, a fairly common badge of rank at the time. Here’s a painting of Washington with one he wore throughout his career: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Gorget#/media/File:Washington_1772.jpg
Here’s a photo of a fairly standard style of gorget: http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/17086/British-Brass-Gilt-Gorgets-for-Sale#.VYmrO_lVhHw
The shape – if it were a moon would best be described as an “increscent moon” and increscent moons are almost never seen with the orientation on the flag. The Cap Badge was the source of inspiration for the flag. The gorget was the inspiration for the cap badge. Note the orientation – the original flag had the same orientation with the opening at the top. The gorget was later turned slightly to enhance the appearance and the Palmetto was added officially in 1861.
If we were talking about whether the South is as accountable for slavery as Islam is accountable for terrorism, we might have a disagreement.
http://www.sciway.net/sc-photos/albums/coast-sc/palmetto-tree-fort-moultrie.jpg
if the strength of the circumstantial evidence you assert for the gorget being the source of the symbol, was submitted as evidence to convict someone of murder, he would walk.
Not among historians – remember, I do this stuff for fun and profit…
…well, ok. Far be it from me to stand between a Republican and his profit!!
lol…there was a pretty funny troll that would pop up now and then quoting Ferengi rules of acquisition in combination with Republican slams and demonization of “profit”.
It was pretty damn funny. I always suspected it was Smirks, but who knows.
The longest running pop up troll I can remember is the 5 year run of a guy on the ABC new forum who would show up at least 4 times a week with the same topic: “Where are the WMD?” He started showing up with it soon after the “Mission Accomplished” fiasco.
His handle was “elpaso”
Wasn’t that a stomping ground of yours? (elpaso)
nope. I don’t even think I’ve passed through.
Were that there was some (profit I mean)…
I heard there was a lot of money in those M-16As.
My drill sergeant at Fort Ord (101st airborne ranger) stole weapons from the pathetic trainees, and sold them on the black market.
I was an OSUT basic trainee at Fort Dix in ’83. We would stack arms outside the DFAC, post a guard and go to dinner. The DFAC was on the road between Dix and McGuire. While we ate one evening late in the cycle, two local yocals in a pickup pulled up, decked the two guards and stole a platoon’s worth of M-16s. They hadn’t been recovered when we left a month or so later…
It sure makes a great focal point for aiming……..contributed to the loss?
Join me in 1775-1776, not 1861. Our state flag is based on Revolutionary War symbols. Oh, the Second South Carolina Regiment won the day and contributed significantly to winning the war.
GORGET – this is a surprise, because as much as I have read in my lifetime I’ve never seen that word. +1 for Fitsnews.
I, like most historians, am a vast storehouse of trivial knowledge…
I correct people all the time that call it the crescent moon.
Hey Colonel, the gorget (crescent) was also on the original 1765 flag with three others, each gorget represented 100 men. The crescent was also an ancient heraldry emblem signifying the Second Son of any family. The blue flag with the three gorgets was first flown in 1765. Too bad about the uneducated douches have to get all twisted about the St. Andrew’s cross. Idiocracy has taken over our nation. They fly bad flag, bad flag equals raycisssst.
It is proven you’re a douche bag.
Well Nikki is my Allah, LMAO!!!
The Democrat “machine” is in full swing now. They are calling out all of their minions to get thier base all whipped up, and to appear bigger and stronger then they are. It’s all about intimidating Republicans/conservatives. All they have to do is say certain code words and just like magic, they have rent-a-mob actions in the street.
I am a gay minion.
I’m gay too! Can I be a minion?
what are your stats?
You’re a douche bag
fact, democrats were the ones that raised the flag in the first place.
SC flag designers, recognizing the rise of the Barbary Pirates/Ottoman Empire, decided to hedge their bets against an Islamist takeover of SC, so they threw the crescent moon in there to be sure the Muslims wouldn’t rape/pillage SC to its death like they did to Constantinople. Wise move.
They always did know which side their butter is breaded on.
Well done Will – the “stainless banner’ needs a border around it so you can tell that it is a rectangular design but the rest is accurate. Where it really gets interesting is when you add the Regimental flags for the units from each state.
…and since the topics of flags won’t go away, let’s celebrate this young man seems to very much likes his Confederate flag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=143&v=1Jadmjn3ebs
He’s obviously a racist/hater.
Agreed. Nice work Will.
“But there is no denying the root cause of the War Between the States was the South’s desire to continue the mass enslavement of black Americans”
Wrong. Read “When in the Course of Human Events” by Charles Adams that speaks of what really occurred (starting in 1828) and not the version of “history” the North has used to justify its actions and deify Lincoln.
Rather than reading someone’s commentary (written many years after the events in question) about the events, why not read the actual documents adopted by the state governments? They tell a different story.
The SC state government made it clear why they seceded in the Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union, adopted officially in 1860. All the other states adopted a similar document after secession.
Clear to whom? Those with a preconceived belief? What did the documents say that the individual colonies issued when they agreed to join the Union? What happened to states rights? What did the original Constitution say in regard to slavery? When Lincoln “freed” the slaves in 1863. exactly which slaves were “freed” and why? In the 1860 census what states had slaves? What was the purpose of the 10th amendment?
Have you bothered to read the document in question? Please do. You could also read “The Address of the People of South Carolina Assembled in Convention to the People of the Slaveholding States of the United States”. I’m not getting into any arguments about all of the other stuff as it doesn’t matter in this discussion…we’re talking about why SC and other southern states seceded from the Union.
Both of these were written/adopted by the SC government AT THAT TIME. As such, they are the most accurate information to use when learning why SC seceded. I trust these much more than the opinion of some writer 150 years later.
Believe what you want.
You know the fact that you guys want the South to have left the union for noble causes doesn’t change history. States rights simply meant the state’s right to allow people to enslave other people.
I don’t see that he’s aying the South left for a “noble cause”, he’s making a more nuanced argument than that.
States’ Rights means the States’ Rights to not be told what to do by a foreign, corrupt, tyrannical government.
“The SC state government made it clear why they seceded in the
Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the
Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union”
What’s not clear though, if you look closely at his comments, is why the North claimed the sole issue of slavery, while themselves still having slaves, and Lincoln’s emancipation only freeing those slaves in the South and exempting Union states….
There’s a reasonable argument that the war had more to do with economics than slavery.
There’s also the troublesome comments Lincoln made, like saying if he could preserve the Union without freeing a slave he’d do it, and so on and so forth.
Reasons for the war do not equal reasons for secession. I’ve been talking about reasons for secession. SC seceded, Lincoln started the war…2 totally different things.
Well, this is the quote he responded to:
“”But there is no denying the root cause of the War Between the States
was the South’s desire to continue the mass enslavement of black
Americans”
war….
I misread that. So I guess we were discussing different issues, sorta.
“There’s a reasonable argument that the war had more to do with economics than slavery.”
First dam logical thing you have ever said. KING COTTON is the economics u speak of.
I’ve read South Carolina’s Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union, and besides referring to the “slave states” there isn’t a mention of slavery being the cause for secession.
Methinks you ought to read it again, and more carefully this time. It is replete with references to Northern hostility to slavery, refusal to return fugitive slaves, etc.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp
speculation.
The word slave or slavery appears 18 times.
This paragraph lays out the fundamental argument: “These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. [states rights] The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening[sic] them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.[the right they are concerned about is the right to own slaves]
The war was fought over “states rights” – the right the South was concerned about was the right to own slavers
From the next to last paragraph: “The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist;the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy.”
States Rights means that we shouldn’t be told what to do by a foreign government.
Yet the South cried foul when Northern states chose to exercise states rights by ignoring the fugitive slave laws. SC specifically calls out these states in the Dec 1860 Reasons doc. So, yeah, states rights when its convenient.
Also, Jefferson Davis’ memoirs. I rented it from my highschool library, and it really opened my eyes.
There is one missing. The white flag. Time to raise it.
Nice summary.
I’ll ask the room: why are ancestors “honored?” Isn’t that Shintoism?
The answer is, “they’re not”. These flag people are just racist assholes. They aren’t honoring anyone.
Really? My ancestors fought to defend South Carolina, and you say I’m not honoring them? You think you know me, and all the other descendants of Confederates, better than we do?
Seriously, explain the “honor” thing. Here’s some on-line definitions that may or may not fit. What does it mean to you to “honor” those people. Not trying to be snarky, want to understand your viewpoint.
verb (used with object)
13.
to hold in honor or high respect; revere:
to honor one’s parents.
14.
to treat with honor.
15.
to confer honor or distinction upon:
The university honored him with its leadership award.
To honor my ancestors means to remember what they’ve done, and to show respect toward their sacrifice.
Honor your descendants as you wish on private property.
For the same reason that the Vietnam, Korean, WWII, WWI, memorials exist. Same for the tomb of the unknowns, and JFKs eternal flame. Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
Is the state house ground the proper venue for such a memorial? That’s above my pay grade, but in my mind I don’t believe the flag flies there for a hateful purpose though I can see why some might think that it does.
Some might think it does, because they’re ignorant about history.
So if the flag was changed to the Bonnie Blue flag, would the liberals still flip their shit?
The Bonnie Blue flag isn’t the soldiers’ flag. The reason the Battle flag is being flown, is because it’s next to a war memorial honoring the dead Confederate soldiers.
Wasn’t it the flag flown when the war started?
“And there are individuals with nary a racist bone in their bodies … who display them with no intention other than honoring the memory of ancestors who fought under their colors.”
Nobody who doesn’t regularly watch fox news believes that horseshit.
Yes! Yes! You need to watch the video link I posted above to see what these people are like!
This was my belief before fox news ever existed.
Die slow fag!
you first
This is the end of country music as we know it.
I was sure after the shooting that the liberals would be going after the guns, but this was the tragedy that all the left wingers had been waiting for. It was the rare blue diamond of tragedies, a White man who once held a Confederate flag (and burned a U.S. one) shot up a church full of praying Blacks, damn near perfect, The liberals couldn’t have wanted a better tragedy to use against Southern people and split the Republican party. They went to the fucking bridge held hands and took selfies, laughed at the shows on Comedy Cnetral and no one had to listen about Caitlyn Jenner and Rachel Dolemite anymore. The Republicans who WERE the great barrier against Marxist political correctness, now found Jesus with a bunch of phony weepy lefties and decided to gang up on Southerners who displayed the flag along with the NAACP who didn’t give a damn about the 500 Blacks who shot other Blacks last month across America. No the great fund raising unicorn had returned! The feared White man with a gun and a Confederate flag! When you phony race baiting assholes are crying (acting) over the dead this week, remember this will be forgotten, the people you persecuted won’t be forgotten and they won’t forget the politicians who so bravely /s stood against political correctness. One year from now you won’t even recall their names, more guns will be sold, the Sons of Confederate veterans will add one million members and Blacks will still be slaughtering Blacks by the bus loads. A piece of cloth isn’t as offensive as political moonbats like the ones here who use a tragedy to finally get even with the rednecks, I hope White people all across America wake up and you get what you deserve.
Eventually, they’ll have to go to school and get a job.
Eventually u will retire back to Ohio
Ohio?
*back* to Ohio?
is that a haiku?… nope.. the cadence is wrong.
Is it an allusion to the Pretenders song – “My city was gone?”
Inquiring minds want to know.
“But there is no denying the root cause of
the War Between the States was the South’s desire to continue the mass
enslavement of black Americans.”
I deny it, because it’s not true.