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Mande Wilkes: Benjamin Netanyahu And Jewish Divergence

TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER’S ADDRESS || By MANDE WILKES || Online I follow a variety of Jewish-interest media.  Because I’m Jewish.  Also I follow a good bit of right-wing media.  Because I’m fiscally conservative.  (You may note a certain prevailing stereotype here, and I couldn’t blame…

TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER’S ADDRESS

mande wilkes head|| By MANDE WILKES || Online I follow a variety of Jewish-interest media.  Because I’m Jewish.  Also I follow a good bit of right-wing media.  Because I’m fiscally conservative.  (You may note a certain prevailing stereotype here, and I couldn’t blame you if you did).

Anyway, here’s an interesting thing I learned this past week: American Jewish media covered Benjamin Netanyahu’s congressional address very differently than it was covered by conservative outlets.

To wit, here’s a headline in the Jewish Daily Forward: “11 Lies Netanyahu Told Congress On Iran.” And while that’s the most blistering headline I’ve come across, it’s hardly alone in its critical portrayal of the Israeli prime minister.  Similarly, the conservative coverage was fawning – as solicitous as the Jewish coverage was scathing.

For me this divergence illustrates the deep schism between the GOP’s focus on Israel and the Jewish people’s own feelings on the subject of Israeli national defense.

Though this is indeed an opinion column, I’m not making a value judgment here.  Rather than single out my own personal views on the matter, I’d rather reflect on the prevailing voices among my fellow Jews.

It’s no secret that as a demographic, Jews vote for liberal candidates – and that goes double with regard to president Barack Obama, who seems to count among his base a large number of Jewish donors and activists.  With the rise of super-PACs these affiliations have been more difficult to quantify, of course, but it remains true that American Jews trend toward progressive politics.

So anytime the GOP becomes breathless about Israeli security, I pay close attention to what the Jews are saying.  Considering that Israel is the Jewish homeland, it makes sense to give some weight to the opinions of “the chosen” themselves, don’t you agree?

And what they’re saying, by and large, is that the U.S. is in no economic position to fund or fight wars on behalf of other sovereign states.  Furthermore, as national defense goes, Israel is heads and shoulders above any other country, really, except the U.S., which makes American intervention even less appropriate.

Funny that finances look to be at the root of the reluctance to instigate a war with Iran.  Conservatives are the fiscal hawks, after all.  Yet when it comes to defense (or offense, as it were), the GOP seems happy to write checks.

And liberals usually love giving money to other countries – yet when it comes to Israel, they suddenly clutch their wallets.

It’s a great big political switcheroo, huh?  Conservatives want to spend; liberals want to scrimp.

What worries me – and it’s the reason I’m writing this article – is the segmentation that occurs with regard to how people choose their media.  Which is to say that I doubt many news consumers are looking at all the angles … and so American Jews might be missing the fact that the GOP is trying to look out for Israel, while the GOP might be blind to the fact that its Jewish constituents oppose courting war with Iran.

As for me, I’m grateful for the luxury of belonging to two political wings of thought that don’t often get to hear the other’s point of view.  Seeing such media divergence this past week has been for me a reminder that we need to switch hats, every once in a while.  It’s the only way for us to see exactly what we look like in the hat we normally wear.

Mande Wilkes is a wife, mother, businesswoman, author, etc. residing on the South Carolina coast with her family.  Email her at m@mandewilkes.com.

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97 comments

GrandTango March 8, 2015 at 6:26 pm

Liberalism is a RELIGION that defies all others.

The souls of those killed by the NAZIs in the gas chambers, weep, as the Democrat Party exerts its deadly stranglehold on the fools and manipulated that choose the politics of hate over their own best interests.

The Devil is alive and well…and I bet he and Adolph Hitler squeal w/ glee that Obama and the liberals are doing to the Jews, with Semitic consent, what they had to do by brutal force.

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Buz Martin March 8, 2015 at 6:45 pm

Oddly enough, though, a liberal Democrat and a moderate one led our nation in it’s part of the Allies defeat of the Axis powers. Funny how that worked out.

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GrandTango March 8, 2015 at 7:37 pm

FDR did not LEAD. He followed Winston Churchill and other Conservatives. There is a mountain of evidence that millions more died in the WWII era because of FDR’s passivity, and indecisiveness in the face of inevitable US involvement. ….

As usual you adhere to the biased pop culture version of history and the mythology of the leftwing…and don’t know your @$$hole from a hole in the ground.

Also, a Democrat is the only man to drop an atomic bomb…and a Democrat almost had us bombed by the USSR in the early 60s, if the Russians would not have agreed to diffuse. JFK was going to go to war, and allow the US to be obliterated w/ nuclear bombs, until the Russians thought better of it…

And Obama – like Clinton – is just another example of a TOTAL F*#k up in the ways of foreign policy…

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johnq March 8, 2015 at 10:00 pm

Welp, Obama sure kicked your asses didn’t he? Twice!

Thew voters have spoken, fuck off!.

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GrandTango March 8, 2015 at 10:05 pm

You are right. HE won…

But the American people who are struggling to provide for our kids, sure lost. Obama has kicked our @$$#$, no doubt, while he eats heartily, vacations perpetually and only seems to care about Racial politics and venues that cater to Black only, like Benedict College, Selma and Brookland Baptist Church. Hate is the great divider. And he is expert at that.

Congratulations on the win…But what a pity. We now have the most racist president ever…

Obama just needs to thank God – if he knows God – that President Lincoln, and the rest of the US presidents did not only think of those like them…while working so hard to punish those NOT like him…

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 8:45 am

That last sentence is one of the most warped-out you have ever produced. Plus, for someone who hates a president for even going to Selma and crossing a bridge, it makes me laugh to see you defending Lincoln so strongly. Son, don’t you know that, for many of your fellow Southern Republicans, that is tantamount to treason? However, I’m a Southern Republican who will give you a break. Lincoln really was a great president. Now don’t argue with me about that.

GrandTango March 9, 2015 at 9:52 am

Democrats owned slaves. They went from hating Black people to hating white people, all for political expediency…you IGNORANT, pack-think F*#k…

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 10:09 am

You are all the more absurd for not admitting that you know I’m aware of all that. I’m also well aware of how the Southern Strategy and Lee Atwater’s appropriation of Alinsky’s “Rule For Radicals” turned white Southern racists into the bedrock of today’s “Republican” Party. Few of them true conservatives (as were the Classical Liberals), but mainly crony capitalist/corporatist pigs like you, living in double-wides while defending basically everyone with a R by their name, as long as they keep the pork piled high almost as high as their bullshit. You just hope they pile up enough so that some of it, eventually “trickles down” to you. And you lie awake at night wondering why, with all the rhetorical ass-kissing and dick-sucking you do to/for them, they are so deeply embarassed to embrace you, or even look you in the eye.

Some of us, though, really do have principles, and are Reformist Republicans. We want to see and end politicians lining their own pockets and pandering to the worst racist elements in the party. You hate us more than anyone else, because we know you game, and will call you on it every time

GrandTango March 9, 2015 at 10:11 am

Boz: you are a tired, pop culture broken record. I’m sure you were at Woodstock, marched at Selma and are one-quarter Cherokee…like every other brainless cliche in search of a personhood that is not as flat and boring as the one you have…

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 10:36 am

Didn’t go to Woodstock. My boss told me I’d lose my job if I did, so somebody else got my ticket — which they ended up not needing anyway. A friend still has that block of tickets, framed and hanging on the wall.

Could not go to Selma, though a friend’s family did, and offered to take me. Parents were sympathetic to the cause, but afraid I’d get killed.

My Cherokee heritage is much less than a quarter, but the DNA of other (mainly Siouan, not Iroquoian) tribes adds up to more than that. The many “Indian wars”, forced removals, and native populations decimated by disease led to consolidations, mergers and blending of a great many Southeastern Woodland tribes. European-descended “Indian Traders”, “Indian Agents”, land surveyors, and in some cases circuit-riding ministers married into the various tribes through much of the 17th through the early 19th Centuries, in order to assure safe passage in Indian lands, as well as a good trading relationship. Some of them had up to five native “country wives.”

A great many Indians living on reservations in federally-recognized Indian tribes, as well as those in in state-recognized or unrecognized tribes, have just about the same (and sometimes much less) “Indian blood” as I have. The vast majority of “whites” and a great many “blacks” in the Southeast do as well, regardless of how they self-identify, racially and culturally.

If you (or anyone else reading this) had ancestors living in South Carolina or any of its bordering states prior to the 20th Century, it is almost a certainty that you are not “pure” anything — least of all “white.”

Being an Indian is about culture and family history, not “blood quantum’. A significant part of six of my paternal lines lived for many generations in a very specific “Indian Settlement” in Horry County as Indians. This has been validated by numerous historians and genealogists. Also by irrefutable DNA matches to some of my closest SC cousins.

Your willfully and arrogantly ignorant opinion on any or all of that changes absolutely nothing.

GrandTango March 9, 2015 at 10:54 am

LMAO…..

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 11:09 am

Keep laughing, but you are quite likely a half-breed mongrel brass-ankle light mulatto hybrid yourself. Either that, or you ain’t from around nowhere near heah, boy.

GrandTango March 9, 2015 at 11:27 am

The TRUE Democrat RACIST rears its faithful head. Thanks Boz. You outed yourself, and your party, for what it is.

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 1:07 pm

Nice try. All of those terms have been applied to me and/or my family at one time or another. We have also been called redbones, crackers, rednecks, wannabe Indians, etc., etc. The point of my comments, which went over your pointy-head (custom made for your KKK hood), is that all these terms are meaningless. Just as race itself is ultimately meaningless.

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 1:56 pm

You are a blessed Child of God, GT, in spite of it all. A blessed Child of God currently giving full expression to his perfect ass-holeness. Waiting to be smote a mighty smite by the backhand of the Most High, the Author of All Creation — aiming to knock some sense and compassion into him.

Thaaaaat’s YOU, pal!

GrandTango March 9, 2015 at 3:15 pm

Boz…quit trying so hard. There’s is only one Big T…and no matter how much you, and those like you, want to be like me…you don’t have the intellect, talent, creativity, life experience, or character to be me…

You seek only aggrandizement for yourself. I care about my country, and more importantly, my fellow contributors…I don’t want any power for myself…I want those w/ power to DO RIGHT BY THE PEOPLE…

While SELFISHNESS and Pride are a very hideous traits…true compassion for those suffering because of total F*#k!*g idiots like you and FITS, cannot be faked…

In other words: We see who, and what, you are…and that’s why you..and people like Saluda Rapids can get no traction…And it’s why you fail against me over and over…

You tell us about yourself, when we really don’t care…and despite the fact I’ve already PERFECTLY defined you all….

Cleanse yourself…and start over…otherwise you’ll keep getting the same ugly result…

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 3:46 pm

NO ONE would want to be you “Big T…” No one. You are angry, hateful, self righteous and many adjectives that I will refrain from spewing, save one – a liar!

You seek ONLY to promote yourself. If there is a hell, it rests inside your mind, creating the chaos you spew daily.

Selfish and pride hideous traits? No one has done a better portraying true selfishness and pride. What? Think you might get a better seat in heaven for all hate you spread?

Every thread you start begins and ends with the same cliches, and in the middle is nothing more than hate.

You may be due a good colon cleansing, I hear it’s good for the soul, all that constipation has to be building.

I do note you are nicer on Sunday’s, I guess the preacher made you feel a little guilty yesterday? How quickly you forget.

GrandTango March 9, 2015 at 4:06 pm

No, I’m only un-wavering, true to my beliefs, honest, logical and I take you for who you tell me you are…while connecting the dots.

That is why you hate me…

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 4:21 pm

As I told you before, I don’t hate you, because to hate you would imply I cared in the first place. The two are close relatives.

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 10:20 pm

I don’t hate the asshole either. I keep telling him that, but he insists that I do.

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 10:26 pm

He is digging for info….that he can use against you later.

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 10:42 pm

True, I guess. But the fact is, he doesn’t use most of the info I share. He ignores it.

I can say, for example, that I believe Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broderick while he was the coked-out Attorney General of Arkansas. I say that because I firmly believe it to be true. I did not vote for Clinton a second time. I deeply distrust the Clintons, and in my opinion, having Bill in the White House again as “First Gentleman” (HAH!), or whatever, is high on the list of reasons not to want her as POTUS.

None of that will phase him. Just as is the case with Obama, GT will swear up and down that I support him 100%. I don’t, just as I have little respect for Hillary and total disdain for Bill.

GT’s contention that Will Folks loves Obama and the Clintons is even further off the mark. Folks is clearly to the right of me, and clearly more of a standard libertarian. Doesn’t matter. GT has this weird story in his head about me an Will being peas in a pod, wearing Speedos, and yadda yadda yadda.

Such a bizarre individual.

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 10:47 pm

He is, but this isn’t only site he visits. FM, I made a comment or two on another site he visits, going to have to change settings, my in box is overflowing. Msgs by the minute.

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 10:49 pm

He IMO is a poser of the worst degree.

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 10:19 pm

Good comments.

FastEddy23 March 9, 2015 at 12:17 am

“You can fool some of the people some of the time” unless they have been drinking the Kool-aid since birth. Make mine electric.

FastEddy23 March 9, 2015 at 12:15 am

You were doing fine until that second sentence… Buz is really a good guy in democrat moderate wraps. Give him time …

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Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 8:46 am

Not a Dem-bulb. Still Repubnant.

FastEddy23 March 9, 2015 at 1:36 pm

Got it … and I’ll tell the NSA so you won’t be on the BummerCare death panel lists.

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 1:52 pm

I gots another plan. ACA didn’t work for me. But I’ll tell you what — it won’t be done away with. It will be fixed. That should have been the aim all along, once it became law.

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 8:59 am

Bah! Another faulty spin cycle. It’s true that FDR had to wait for support from all of Congress, and of course for an intensely provocative event like WWII, to get us into WWII. Liberal Democrats (and some extremely anti-Semitic Dem and Repub conservatives) did not want to go against Hitler as long as the pact between Germany and Russia was in place. But there is a great deal of historical evidence that he very much wanted to get us into it, long before.

And it’s funny that you make so much of Truman and the nuking of Japan. How many GOP leaders have wanted to nuke how many different nations over the past several decades?

JFK’s brinksmanship is considered, even by most sane Republicans, to have been his finest hour. The Russians “thought better” on nuking us precisely because he stood strong and resolute against their obscene provocations, with the American people solidly behind him.

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FastEddy23 March 8, 2015 at 11:58 pm

The “progressive” Fascists of the USA had a tough time reconciling Truman’s slight turn to the middle, but secretly applauded the onset of a “progressive” win, considering the evaporation of Their heros.

That does show how squishy and slippery the quasi-left is.

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Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 10:11 am

Have some coffee. You’re sounding like Glenn Beck on PCP this morning.

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Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 1:12 pm

Truman was never really a full-on progressive. He was a great choice for VP, for that very reason. Wallace would have doomed the party, had he stayed in and eventually become POTUS. He was, if not a total commie himself, most certainly an enabler and “fellow-traveller” of commies. FDR was well rid of him. A fact very much glossed over in the otherwise excellent and comprehensive Ken Burns documentary series “The Roosevelts” on PBS.

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Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 3:16 pm

I think we watched the same documentary, in addition I have also read some books on FDR. Truman isn’t as interesting. If recall correctly, he was positioning himself to run for another office, maybe US Senator, when he got the call he was totally unprepared for – You Sir are now President.

FDR was intrigued with spy networks, I cannot begin to imagine how he might use today’s technology. He also did work around the Constitution, by working around Congress. America did not want a war, but they had no idea it was coming to our doorstep anyways.

His meetings with Churchill were unprecedented – a secret meeting in the middle of the ocean. It is also noteworthy that before FDR we had no REAL military capabilities. We didn’t even have the technology at the time, but he said it would happen and it did.

Truman would not have had an atomic bomb had it not been for the forward thinking of FDR.

Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 10:12 pm

Correct on all points. FDR was not perfect, just as his cousin and lifelong role model Teddy was not perfect. But both men were ferociously tenacious in pursuing their goals. Both did work around the constitution. In FDR’s case his other cousin, Eleanor, clearly wanted him to work around it even more.

The new deal needed Wallace’s socialist leanings in order to succeed. Much of that was about stop-gap, time limited measures to get the economy back on its feet, people back to work, and more food on people’s tables. But Wallace as POTUS would have taken it all much too far. Besides having bizarre, esoteric spiritualist leanings, he intended to install at least two communists in his cabinet, should he succeed FDR in the Oval Office. FDR was having none of that.

I’ve heard all the arguments against the bomb. It was the right decision at the time, and actually saved countless millions of lives. Had it not been developed when it was, it would have still come into being. The good news is, it was used for a cause that was ultimately a good one.

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 10:22 pm

Surprisingly or maybe not so much I agree with you on most points.

Hoover was also interesting 8n his own way….

Of all that I reflect back on, yes interesting contradiction, aside from Washington, Jefferson and FDR are most interesting.

FastEddy23 March 8, 2015 at 11:52 pm

At last! A clear unfettered belief without resorting to profanity! … And I agree.

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The Colonel March 8, 2015 at 6:28 pm

The Jewish Daily Forward’s article is the poorest attempt to refute a political speech I’ve read recently. The author confuses divergent opinion with lies and then fails to back up a single point they make. Mandy’s article? Well, the best I can say is that we’ve trod all of this ground before.

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idcydm March 8, 2015 at 10:03 pm

The Lara Friedman article is a classic, stick your head in the sand.

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The Colonel March 8, 2015 at 10:29 pm

I tend to believe that’s exactly what Ms Friedman would like for us to do.

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Walter Floodpants March 8, 2015 at 10:31 pm

Better in the sand than its present repository

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FastEddy23 March 9, 2015 at 12:19 am

The “progressives” have been Jew haters since before the Wilson administration … except for their campaign donations.

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euwe max March 8, 2015 at 9:55 pm

He who fights with monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster – for when you gaze deeply into the abyss – the abyss also gazes deeply into you.

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FastEddy23 March 8, 2015 at 11:49 pm

Forced to gaze into that abyss, for sure … The state of Israel is in that no win situation (again).

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euwe max March 9, 2015 at 12:48 am

Offer to share Jerusalem as a capitol with Palestine, give them a corridor to the sea and recognize them as a state – this would be the civilized thing to do.

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FastEddy23 March 9, 2015 at 4:56 am

Did that already. The Israelis gave the Palestinians Gaza and Gaza City and They almost immediately turned it into a ghetto and then used it as a military base to launch missiles at Israel.

Besides Jerusalem is already a “shared capital” city with five religions. Forgetaboutit.

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euwe max March 9, 2015 at 2:48 pm

did not.

AsianSuperfly March 9, 2015 at 9:48 am

Who is them? “They” can’t even decide who should be in charge. Gaza and the West Bank are run by arch-enemy factions. There is no one to make a deal with for the moment.

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euwe max March 9, 2015 at 2:45 pm

the Palestinians.

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 12:21 pm

At the risk of sounding repetitive, have you ever read Son of Hamas? It is the most insightful read regarding that region I have stumbled across.

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euwe max March 10, 2015 at 1:23 pm

No. I hate reading about “that region”

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 3:29 pm

It is depressing! Here is a short run down of the book, I found it interesting that he turned against his own family and sided with Israel.

“Biography[edit]
Mosab Hassan Yousef (later Joseph)[2] was born in Ramallah, a city 10 kilometers (6.2 mi) north of Jerusalem. His father, Sheikh Hassan Yousef, was a Hamas leader who spent many years in Israeli prisons.[2][3][7] He is the oldest of five brothers and three sisters.[2][8]

When Yousef was growing up he wanted to be a fighter because that was expected of Palestinian children in the West Bank.[9] Yousef was first arrested when he was ten, during the First Intifada, for throwing rocks at Israeli settlers.[9] He was further arrested and jailed by Israel numerous times.[3] As his father’s eldest son, he was seen as his heir apparent[2] and became an important part of the Hamas organization.[3] Yousef’s doubts about Islam and Hamas began forming when he realized Hamas’ brutality, and that he hated how Hamas used the lives of suffering civilians and children to achieve their goals.[2] Yousef was held by Shin Bet agents in 1996. While in prison, he was shocked by Shin Bet’s interrogation methods, which he considered humane, when compared to how Hamas operatives tortured imprisoned suspected collaborators.[10] He decided to accept a Shin Bet approach to become an informant.[11]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef

Bible Thumper March 9, 2015 at 7:55 am

God is dead! God remains dead! And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves?What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?
— Friedrich Nietzsche

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euwe max March 9, 2015 at 2:47 pm

if anyone doesn’t know who said it by now, they don’t deserve to know.

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Bible Thumper March 9, 2015 at 11:17 pm

I detect elitism much.

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Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 11:37 pm

He did post it 9 hours ago, unfortunately I did not get it until a few minutes ago? I am subscribed to this site, also via disquis, but I don’t always get current updates :(

I “think” it was Neitzsche, but without a lot of Googling, which 9 hours would have given me, not sure.

euwe max March 10, 2015 at 12:16 am

We elitists love God, and know that Jesus’ message was mercy, and not sacrifice.

euwe max March 9, 2015 at 8:10 pm

What serves the higher type of men as nourishment or delectation must almost be poison for a very different and inferior type. The virtues of the common man might perhaps signify vices and weaknesses in a philosopher. It could be possible that a man of a high type, when degenerating and perishing, might only at that point acquire qualities that would require those in the lower sphere into which he had sunk to begin to venerate him like a saint. There are books that have opposite values for soul and health, depending on whether the lower soul, the lower vitality, or the higher and more vigorous ones turn to them: in the former case, these books are dangerous and lead to crumbling and disintegration; in the latter, heralds’ cries that call the bravest to their courage. Books for all the world are always foul-smelling books: the smell of small people clings to them. Where the people eat and drink, even where they venerate, it usually stinks. One should not go to church if one wants to breathe pure air.

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Bible Thumper March 9, 2015 at 11:06 pm

God meant to appeal to the masses. That’s why elitist despise God so. A god who loves the masses is beneath them. The air may not be as pure, but their are processes going on in a cow pasture that the elites can’t begin to comprehend.

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Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 11:50 pm

I “think” you mean Jesus? A philosophy that outdid all others by promising eternal life. His philosophy isn’t so different than Epicurus as far as I can detect, with one exception, Jesus promised eternal life. Epicurus? More pleasure than pain and the philosophy not soooo different with one exception – Epicurus does not promise an afterlife.

His philosophy is more about the nature of things and caution in embracing things that bring more pain than pleasure, while pleasure is the highest achievement. Friends are also highly valued. Marriage not necessarily recommended. That’s my take, but that is a VERY quick summation of a very complicated and largely missing philosophy. I’ll try to find a link to a good read and post.

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 11:52 pm

Can’t necessarily recommend this site, but a friend sent me this book and I do appreciate the philosophy, you might too?

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9568645607&searchurl=x%3D0%26y%3D0%26sts%3Dt%26kn%3DNorman+DeWitt+Epicurus+Philosophy

Bible Thumper March 10, 2015 at 12:04 am

Jesus wants you to put others well being in equal importance to your own, but we always fail at that. If we accept it; we are forgiven.

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 12:17 am

Then I am certainly forgiven, because I am a human with flaws. I look at Jesus philosophy much like I do others. I will say place a higher value, not because of eternal life – I have not hopes nor expectation of being anything more than part of the universe – we came from dust and to dust we will return. Therefore, it does’t both me that there is no afterlife. I have a tendency to “believe” we live on, but not in the sense of heaven or hell, but maybe through our children, maybe part of the perfect ecosystem that was created. I tend no worry so much about heaven or hell as much as I do about leaving my legacy, my children, in a better future than I know. Does it exist? No idea. One brilliant man once said to me in response to my endless questions about Judeo-Christian values and he ran out of answers, “it’s simply a good way to live your life….”

euwe max March 10, 2015 at 1:00 am

I agree… looking forward to a reward, or expecting something more robs you of authenticity.

euwe max March 10, 2015 at 12:17 am

I am full of what is in a cow pasture, yet I am an elitist who loves God.

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 12:20 am

Well, I do think it a logical assumption that God would love a cow pasture too…j/k trying to make light of a very heavy topic that is prone to explode.

Bible Thumper March 10, 2015 at 12:26 am

There is enough variety in the Bible to appeal to the humble and the elite. Like the rich man, (eye of the needle), the elite usually have more difficulty.

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 12:35 am

Time for me to turn in, school comes early and I’m sure to check in late afternoon tomorrow. Look forward to more discussion. Thank you for being open minded enough to engage.

euwe max March 10, 2015 at 12:53 am

few are those who find it – sounds elitist to me.

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 11:26 pm

Awww… Sounds like Nietzsche to me? Could be any number of philosophers, but he is the one who would put it so bluntly IMO.

AR would likely agree, but not a big AR fan, do respect “some” of her work.

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Bible Thumper March 9, 2015 at 11:35 pm

Philosophical reads are difficult for me. I never retain it; occasionally I stumble on a gem. I try to exercise those mental mussels.

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 11:44 pm

When you reach my age, journey in life, after looking across multiple disciplines, starting with psychology, touching on socialogy and later branching out into philosophy, it’s very interesting how ideas espoused become societys’ molded. Deep roots in philosophy.

For example, I think Epicurus had a reign of something like 700 years (BC and AD), but few even know who he is today. Much of his works were destroyed.

Some of the older philosophy is now being resurrected. It is/has always been a battle of belief systems IMO,which I find fascinating.

The evolution of society: the why’s, the where, and now the when….

Bible Thumper March 9, 2015 at 11:53 pm

These ideas are spreading like wildfire. It is disturbing to some. How else do you explain young people visiting strip bars one day and a few weeks later they join ISIS or flying planes into skyscrapers?

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 12:00 am

That IMO has more to do with Muslim beliefs. To my knowledge in simple terms, the difference in Christian and Jews, Jews do not accept Jesus as the savior, still waiting for theirs. Christians believe Jesus Son of God, while Muslims acknowledge Jesus, they follow the teaching as Muhammad as the last prophet.

Thus centuries of fighting over what is right and wrong.

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 12:02 am

corrected a “little” discrepancy there… (humor ;)

Bible Thumper March 10, 2015 at 12:20 am

Jihadi John is wearing a Pirates cap hip hop style, oversized straight unbent bill. A year later, he is chopping off heads. Explain that.

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 12:29 am

It’s the same thing as discussed above. Islam/Muslim Religion believe that Muhammad was the last prophet. They somewhat acknowledge Jesus teachings, but he is not recognized as a prophet, for lack of a better term, a wise man. When you believe that Muhammad was last prophet, the philosophy is very different and open to interpretation, just like Christianity is, with the exception, in most our minds it is not believable, acceptable or even fathomable. Imagine that this life is a passing trial, as soon as you pass the test, you move to the next life, where treasures and virgins galore are promised. They say they only want his love, but I cannot fathom killing yourself and a multitude of others would bring peace, eternal life, reward. That again, is a very short and biased view, based on my limited research of the topic. My research involved engaging with some from the Middle East, asking what they believe, piecing it together with research and drawing my own limited and not by any means well thought out views.

Bible Thumper March 10, 2015 at 12:36 am

That I understand that. It’s the contradiction of embracing hip hop styles. I don’t want to be totally pessimistic. It seems that Muslims in the US are less alienated than those in Europe.

euwe max March 10, 2015 at 12:12 am

yes. He was very blunt…. and sharp!

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 12:19 am

Damn it, who said it? Curiosity killed the cat and I am certainly becoming sleep deprived – ha!

euwe max March 10, 2015 at 12:58 am

It was Nietzsche.. air.

Beyond Good & Evil: Prelude to a Philosophy of the Future PART TWO THE FREE SPIRIT

Nietzsche, Friedrich (2010-02-26). Beyond Good & Evil: Prelude to a Philosophy of the Future (Kindle Locations 739-740). Random House, Inc.. Kindle Edition. #30

Purple Rain March 10, 2015 at 12:35 am

Great Question! Hope we have more tomorrow ;)

Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 11:23 pm

I like Nietzsche, still not sure if his death was in part due to STD or his own philosophy, but damn he had some great one liners, a couple of my favs:

“That which doesn’t kill us makes us stronger”

“You have your way and I have mine, as for the right way, it does not exist.”

One of my favorite philosophical reads is actually Thomas Paine, I think is “Age of Reason” ? I still have it been a couple years since I read it. I also enjoy Epicurus, what little we have left of him.

Currently reading The Columbia History of Western Philosophy.

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Purple Rain March 11, 2015 at 7:32 am

I love this quote! It’s a reminder to me why I got out of politics. Yes, I comment on this site, but that is insignificant in comparison to how I spent years of my time.

I felt I was becoming the monster I was fighting and deleted my FB page, twitter page, stopped taking political phone call, threw surveys in the trash, you name it!

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Walter Floodpants March 8, 2015 at 10:24 pm

The selective Churchill parallel is especially galling.

In the British government’s 1922 White Paper on Palestine, Winston Churchill wrote:

The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty’s Government on 2nd November, 1917.

Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become “as Jewish as England is English.” His Majesty’s Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.’

Source: Yale University’s Faculty of Law Avalon Project
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/brwh1922.asp

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Walter Floodpants March 8, 2015 at 10:29 pm

For completeness, here is the 1917 Balfour Declaration, in its entirety. Note how its validity depends on the existence of a place called ‘Palestine’, and an indigenous population, whose civil and religious rights Jews were not entitled to trample on. How did that turn out?

November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

“His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,

Arthur James Balfour

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FastEddy23 March 9, 2015 at 12:23 am

Personally, I think we should sell the Israelis all of those A-10’s They can buy … or borrow at the current fed rate of <1%. Patriot missiles and drones with the heat, too, if They want 'em.

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FastEddy23 March 9, 2015 at 5:49 am Reply
Timmy Tebow March 9, 2015 at 9:45 am

Yes! Sweet Sweet Mande is back

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Buz Martin March 9, 2015 at 10:41 am

I lurve her.

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Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 3:09 pm

I like Mande too, while we disagree on military, I like the fact she is open enough to discuss almost any topic.

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Soft Sigh from Hell March 9, 2015 at 7:15 pm

It is somehow odd that discussion of the Palestine/Israel conflict (from national to armed) has been much freer and more open in Israel than in the US, for decades. At long last the discussion is opening up here, though heating up as well I might add.

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Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 7:25 pm

I haven’t read all the comments, would hate to be POTUS dealing with these issues. It is an old conflict. Every time Israel tries to play nice with the Palestinians, they get crapped on. They (Israel) don’t necessarily want to play nice IMO, but due to world diplomacy, they do require “permission” lest they want to be attacked by the world at large.

That area is like a freaking volcano getting ready to erupt. I don’t support Israel for religious reasons, but for global diplomacy/stabilization.

Every time Israel tries to open borders what happens? Read Son of Hamas – a great insight into how they think.

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Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 7:53 pm

They = Palestinians

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Purple Rain March 9, 2015 at 7:52 pm

Internet can be a beautiful or destructive force.

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Bible Thumper March 10, 2015 at 12:52 am

Israelis/Jews are hated and they know it. Conservatives Jews know they can’t get haters to love them. Liberals Jews try.
Americans are not that much different. We are a little surprised at how much we are hated and naive about it.

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