“LORDS OF DISCIPLINE” IT AIN’T …
|| By FITSNEWS || Big news out of the South Carolina Lowcountry this week: A major hazing scandal at The Citadel (a.k.a. “El Cid”), South Carolina’s famous military college. At least five upperclass cadets have left the school and another twenty face disciplinary action … as was widely reported across multiple media outlets beginning late last week.
But what’s the story behind the story?
According to our sources at the school, these “hazing” allegations aren’t as serious as they’ve been made out to be. In fact one source referred to them as “chickensh*t” violations involving little more than cadets being subjected to “physical training that wasn’t authorized.” We’re also told the ensuing crackdown is part of an ongoing softening of discipline at the school – which some fear is eroding its effectiveness.
The allegations were initially reported following a February 8 cadet meeting called by the school’s new commandant, U.S. Navy Captain Eugene F. Paluso. At the meeting, Paluso reportedly threatened students with disciplinary action if they failed to disclose their knowledge of “hazing” incidents.
Hence the wave of “complaints.”
In fairness to the school’s leadership, the five cadets who withdrew (under pressure) have been accused of striking fellow students behind closed doors – which, if true, would obviously fall well outside the bounds of acceptable hazing (even at a military college).
But one recent graduate of The Citadel told FITS the current administration is “neutering” the school’s tradition – and that even those on the receiving end are starting to complain about it.
“Cadets are pissed (Paluso) changed hell week to a piece of cake and is more interested in administrative infractions and tightening the lid on social media,” the source told us. “One example is no yelling at knobs during hell week.”
“Knobs” are incoming freshmen at The Citadel. They arrive on campus one week before school starts, which is referred to as “hell week” due to the intensive training they receive.
Or used to receive …
Apparently now “hell week” is just “heck week.” If that …
Hazing has been in the news a lot over the last few months due to scandals at Clemson University and the University of South Carolina. And we don’t condone it. But The Citadel isn’t like most colleges or universities … it’s a military school. And prohibitions against yelling at military schools seems pretty damn ridiculous, if you ask us.
157 comments
Hazing at the Citadel? Sounds like a Loftis dream come true!
I think you mean “wet” dream.
You mean small penised meat heads aren’t allowed to bully other small penised meat heads? What has the world come to?!?
What will become of our beloved Fake Military College of South Carolina?!
Gotta stay prepared for that slave revolt. The south will whine again!
They are a preparin’ to shell Fowt Sumtah agin aye say suh.
Nothing but “a dude factory,” as ol’ Pitchfork famously said.
Somebody tell me why this school’s mission is seen as essential to the state’s mission/goals, other than continuing pockets of power as a function of its alums. In other words, why is El Cid part of the state higher ed mission and thus receive public funding?
The Citadel’s mission is to prepare South Carolina’s military forces to repel the invading armies of the Obama – UN – Gay – Hillary – French – Jihadi – Sharia Law – Hollywood – Liberal coalition.
Or Sherman I guess. Worked last time.
HOT OFF THE PRESS. Bill O’Reilly appointed the new commandant at el cid due to his war experiences in Argentina and picking on his former wife during their divorce. He even attempted to get excommunicated from the catholic church. Now that leadership qualities.
What did Sanford get out of Buenos Aires that Bill O’Reilly didn’t get? Hot monkey love.
your a fucking idiot you obivously have no clue what the citadel is
And you are an articulate and thoughtful defender of the Citadel with an excellent grasp of spelling. Did you learn it there?
A visitor to the Citadel asked one of the cadets, “And just how old are you, sir?”
The cadet answered, “That’s hard to say, sir. According to my latest school tests, I have a psychological age of 15 and a moral age of 12. Anatomically, I’m 22, and mentally I’m 20. But if you refer to my chronological age. that’s 18 – but nobody pays any attention to that these days!”
A classmate of mine here is a front runner to go into space after graduation as part of a study and is being published in a physics study as a junior, so there’s that.
A classmate of mine here is a front runner to go into space after graduation as part of a study…
You’re making it waaaaay too easy for the haters, son.
That’s terrific and, jokes aside, abilities like his are to be applauded!
I’m an active duty Marine, and I get yelled at from time to time. I don’t see much value in it. Today, when I made a wrong turn that made us arrive an hour “late” (we didn’t actually have an appointment), my Staff Sergeant was furious, shouting things like, “What the f*** is wrong with you! Do you even know how to drive? Are you f***ing retarded? Just do what the f*** I tell you to do!” In this situation, none of the yelling could have possibly helped fix the problem, but it could’ve made it worse.
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or another. I don’t see the value in yelling, but the military runs on tradition, of which yelling is no small part.
Where are the military ass-kickers such as Randolph Scott in “Gung Ho” and R. Lee Ermey in “Full Metal Jacket”..?? Sarge Dad used to kick my ass until I was 8 years old, and I now consider myself a better man.
Ass kickers look great on screen, but whenever someone tries to channel that in real time, they’re just assholes. After all, Gunny Hartman got a .762 to the chest, remember?
I have a relative that was an Olympic athlete in volleyball(for Canada) and played later on the sand volleyball circuit and he mentioned to me how inappropriate the thought all the yelling/tough guy stuff was at the collegiate levels by coaches.(said it distracted him and lowered his self esteem via intimidation, of course he was a kid them…but still odd to hear a 6’4″ man say it)
It was interesting to me because like Shifty, my father was an ass kicker(and kicked my ass routinely) both in my personal life and in sports and I never really considered a different view.
Where I feel differently about it from Shifty is whether it made me a “better man” or not, in retrospect, I think it was unnecessary and did not.
Now, that being said…I’ve been on teams where some athletes simply perform better when being yelled at…so there’s that.
There’s probably an individual component/reality to the whole thing.
Put very well……
Really, a .762?
Epic fail on my part. 7.62mm!
That’s 7(point)62
7.62
I should have looked farther down.
Well-well shifty henry, Randolph Scott was an actor, who in private life was gay!!!! How can you consider your self a “better man” after “Sarge Dad” kicked your ass when you the comments you submit are shit. Being a better man I guess is your opinion? ASSHOLE
“In 1944, Scott and Grant stopped living together but remained close friends throughout their lives.[35] This has led to unsubstantiated gossip that the two were a homosexual couple. Scott’s adopted son, Christopher, challenged the rumors. Following Scott’s death, Christopher wrote a book entitled, Whatever Happened to Randolph Scott?, in which he rebuts rumors of his father’s alleged homosexuality. Budd Boetticher, who directed Scott in seven films from 1956 to 1960, had this to say about the rumors: “Bullshit”.[34]Grant’s assertion that he had “nothing against gays, I’m just not one myself”, is treated at length in Peter Bogdanovich’s book of essays about actors, Who the Hell’s in It.”-Wiki
Clarification: I should have been more specific since I was making references to their movie roles.
I’ll retire after 32 years in June. I’ve been enlisted through the rank of Sergeant and been a commissioned officer since 1987 on active duty and in the Reserves. I’ve been shot at a couple of times, been deployed to unpleasant places way more than a couple of times – I’ve never seen any value in hazing, none.
Is there a time when a proficient ass chewing is not only useful put prescribed? Sure – but the ass you chew gets nothing out of it. It’s the guys who hear it and say to themselves “…there but for the Grace of God go I..” and vow to not get in that situation who benefit. Is there a time to push a training unit well past the endurance level of lesser prepared men? Sure, been pushed that way several times, it’s how you get small units like Rangers and SF to go beyond what us mere mortals could accomplish. But I never got anything out of it when it was directed at me only and done in a demeaning manner.
I’m old school, I not only know what “wall to wall counseling” is, I have participated in it, as both “the counselor” and “the counseled”. In retrospect, it was largely a chance for me (or my counselor) to work out some personal irritation and accomplished little other than reinforcing some “fear motivation”
….. well said!
The thing I’ve noticed about my military friends and relatives,many gone,but all from WWII,or Vietnam,is that they rarely talk/talked about their service,and went through much more than being,’shot at’-None of them ever needed to pat themselves on the back,or pass themselves off as ‘heroes’…
All respect,but a little too vainglorious,Colonel.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that gets tired of hearing self congratulatory humblebrag from “the colonel.”
No intent to thump my chest here boys, in fact, I fully admit to being a full blooded pogue these days. My point in listing my “credentials” is to provide credence to my assessment of the validity of hazing.
It’s one thing to say “…hazing doesn’t contribute anything positive to the military according to this book or that professor…”, it’s a different thing to say “…based on my experience…” and have a broad enough experience base to provide weight to the opinion. I didn’t make this clear enough but my whole point in commenting is that I am vehemently anti hazing. I first heard the term humble bragging this morning in an article I read in the Harvard Business Review – not my intent at all.
I personally think you are to be commended for your service to our country. Hazing and all the yelling and cursing at lower ranking personnel was one in a long list of reasons I didn’t make the military a career. I like making my own decisions , whether right or wrong, to being told what to do. I only made E-5 which didn’t get me out of that level so I got out after my time. Your putting up with all the BS is enough to receive my gratitude for a job well done. Have a long and happy retirement Col.
“Tanks” RE – I never planned a career, just enlisted after getting kicked out of college. For me it made all the difference but it’s not for everybody.
According to FITS and Ron Paul we don’t need our military anymore. Why is this a story?
Just let Russia,China,Iran and ISIS run things.
That sounds like one of the gayest joints in all of SC. Knobs? Really?
lol…bring a whole new perspective on the saying “polishing the knob” doesn’t it?
Yeah because the bald heads of first year students look like doorknobs. You seriously have to resort to homosexuality? How about you go through the system and see what it’s all about if you’re so confident about how it is here. By the way, there is the same amount of old money here as any other well known college anywhere.
No thanks. A ‘system’ of Homosexual hazing and experimentation isn’t my thing. I would join an actual branch of the military, instead of playing soldier with some ‘knobs’.
FITS Moderate Jeb is tanking, and Liberal-Tarian Christie, along w/ middle-roader Romney are DONE…
Hillary has to stay incommunicado to keep from her numbers plunging even more…and Obama has gone TOTALLY off the deep end…
So This ignorant MoFo wants to talk about ANYTHING but the political landscape…
Sucks to be Ya’ll…LMAO….
It could be worse you guys
Wow..That’s original.
Are you one of those ‘Best and Brightest’ the liberals describe themselves as…or is it ‘Best and Whitest’…now that Hollywood is being outed a RACIST????…LMAO….
Landscape – Jeb has all the money. Done! See – it’s really easy.
you are the clown who was promoting rick perry and hermain cain for 2012. LOL JeB BUSH ALREADY WON. jeb bush is next president. it alreADY HAPPENED. if you can’t figure this out, if you already don’t know jeb bush won, you are a f/*#%n DUMB@$$. jeb bush already won the presidency you fkn moronic halfwit. pleas do not respond sil vous plait until you get a fkn clue. you declared ricjk perry would be president. you are a fkn idiot LOL JEB BUSH ALREADy WON two terms president and you are plucking your ass hairs waiting to figure it OUT LMFAO.
Like I said. You are P!$$#d because your GOP moderates are tanking…and ALL you have is Hillary….LMAO….
And Hillary will get her @$$ kicked provided the GOP has wised up and realized only a true Conservative can win the White House…and a White Democrat never will again….Hahahahah…
Yeah but why would we want FITS to talk about the political landscape? We get all we need from you.
Worthless…
Another brilliant response. I guess I can understand why your responses are so keen and insightful. After all, you do have quite a bit of time on your hands.
“And prohibitions against yelling at military schools seems pretty damn ridiculous, if you ask us.”
YES, DRILL SERGEANT!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8U04Jr0mqI
It would be different if most of the cadets ended up in the military, but only a few ever actually join up after graduation.
It was posted earlier but actually around 35-40% of the cadets commission directly to active duty service.
The Citadel is about as “military” as Francis Marion or Columbia College. It’s where old money South Carolinians send their kids if they have to go to an in-state school. It’s all for show and not a military academy.
True. If met some real “soft” people from the Citadel. Obviously they aren’t all that way, but it’s a strange institution in comparison to VMI or something along those lines.
Sure…let’s form an opinion, generally, about the whole school based on the few people that you’ve met.
Sounds like a great idea!
FYI…to the untrained eye, it is very difficult to distinguish a Citadel Cadet from a VMI Keydet.
Lastly…
“[O]r something along those lines” –> Huh? Saying The Citadel is not “along those lines” as VMI is pure foolishness and helps confirm your complete lack of knowledge in the matter. That said, Congratulations–you’ve just provided me with the most ignorant comment I’ve seen in quite a while.
Or the fact that 60% of Citadel graduates don’t even join the military in any form or fashion upon graduation.
It gets better than that. At VMI all students are REQUIRED to be in ROTC, unlike The Citadel.
Clearly there is a difference between VMI and The Citadel, otherwise The Citadel would be requiring ROTC of its cadets.
We are required to be in ROTC.
” Saying The Citadel is not “along those lines” as VMI is pure foolishness and helps confirm your complete lack of knowledge in the matter.”
“VMI is the only military college in the US which is nationally ranked by U.S. News and World Report in the same category as the federal military academies.”-Wikipedia
Boom! He brings the wikipedia citation. (Dropping the hammer, I see).
Again…you completely bastardize the facts. Do everyone a favor and stop making things up.
The Citadel requires ROTC as well. What foolishness to speak otherwise?
http://www.citadel.edu/root/rotc
Note: The citation is from The Citadel’s website; followed by contact information for each branch’s PMS (professor of military science). VMI has an identical policy, wherein keydets are required to take ROTC each semester, yet they are not required recieve a service commission thereafter. (See also Texas A&M, Norwich, Valley Forge, etc.)
http://www.vmi.edu/content.aspx?id=1322
Do yourself a favor and take note of the almost identical language from each site that specifies the ROTC requirements.
“The Citadel requires ROTC as well. What foolishness to speak otherwise?”
So tell me, what percentage of The Citadel’s masters student are in ROTC?
I assume 100%?
While you’re answering my question on ROTC membership among those taking masters classes, you can also enlighten me on the specific wording in The Citadel’s website:
“While every cadet must successfully complete a course in one of four ROTC departments each semester”
So tell us, is completing an ROTC course the same as membership?
I am not the website’s editor. Nor did I author its content.
Your understanding of The Citadel woefully fails–evidenced by your poorly formed questions.
I’m done on this thread with you.
Good day.
“I am not the website’s editor. Nor did I author its content.”
Let me tell you something I’ve found about most military organizations, for which I’ve done training as a sub contractor at times.(primarily the AF and Army)
They are VERY specific on wording, way beyond the point of “normalcy”. In fact, I’m very careful to make sure I fully understand the guidelines by which I operate by reading and fully understanding each and every word.
I had doubts about your claim. There is a reason it’s specifically stated “have to take complete a course” is used instead of specifically joining the ROTC. In fact, if they had to join the ROTC would they have to pick a branch from my understanding.
You can be “done” with me all you want, but that doesn’t change the reality. There is a difference between taking ROTC classes and joining ROTC, and The Citadel seems to have acknowledged that on their website and I take military organized information very literally as that’s one thing most military organizations are good at(documentation & instruction).
You assume incorrectly.
However, it is correct to assume that 100% of the College of Graduate Studies are not members of the Corps of Cadets. Members of the grad program do not participate, nor do they pretend to participate in the Corps. It is an entirely separate entity.
Your arguments continue to fail.
“You assume incorrectly”
Well, my assumption was based on your statement:
“The Citadel requires ROTC as well. What foolishness to speak otherwise?”
You never specified “Corps of Cadets”.
So, tell me, how many other SMI’s offer a master’s program?
Of particular note, I decided to peruse your Wikipedia citation. I actually got an out-loud laugh.
Yes…VMI’s own page on Wikipedia, authored by none other than, (wait for it) VMI carefully crafts its description as being such.
If you spend a few more seconds, you’ll realize that VMI is categorized as a National Liberal Arts College. As such, it is in the same category (and notably behind) the service academies.
The Citadel does not meet the definition of this category. Rather, The Citadel is defined as a “Regional University.”
– Source: None other than . . . US News & Report Best College Search
Go Troll elsewhere
“VMI’s own page on Wikipedia, authored by none other than, (wait for it) VMI carefully crafts its description as being such.”
So you’re saying VMI is being deceptive?
“Give me an army of Citadel graduates and I’ll win a battle, give me a
handful of VMI men and I’ll win a war.” – Gen. George S. Patton
Form an opinion based on SATs and high school GPA.
I’m glad our tax dollars can help these disadvantaged souls out and give them place to send their heirs. My gosh, where else would they go? Then again, if not for El Cid, we wouldn’t have Frank Underwood (or Frank Underwolf). Disregard. I get it now
They could go to SC State.
That’s reserved for the heirs of the help of the old money SCinians.
Stop posting. Your lack of an education is showing. The Citadel is classified as ‘senior military college’ by the federal government and consistently produces the more military officers than any college in the USA except for West Point, Naval Academy, and the AF academy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senior_Military_College
With 30% of grads going active duty? More officers in what, the Guard and Reserves maybe. Recent studies question the return on investment from West Point etc. If the question the ROI of USMA, where does that leave El Cid?
Remember it’s a #’s game too. If they turn out far more graduates on the the whole, their % of commission acceptance can be lower yet they produce more officers.
Tell that to my fallen Citadel brothers that have been laid to rest in Arlington you POS.
Versus anyone else who’s laid to rest at Arlington?
One thing is certain, Citadel brothers will stick together because nobody else will give them the respect they think they deserve.
Your response doesn’t make sense. You made statements relating to The Citadel not being “military” and really just a dog and pony show, and I proved how wrong you were with that moronic statement you made.
Something stinks about you…did you attend and quit or get kicked out? Why even post on this? Sadly I believe there are a couple of butt hurt posters on this that are exactly that. Washed out while they are there and then spend eternity posting negative things on every article about The Citadel. Am I describing you or are you just trying to look like a genius with Wikipedia “facts”?
By the way. “That’s where the “old money South Carolinians” send their kids?” My next door neighbors when I attended where from America Samoa, Bahrain and Thailand. Quit posting and looking like an idiot.
Hopefully the Citidel did not award you and English degree.
*an
Very good young fellow! You saw a typo.
I just thought that someone who received a degree from Clemson would check what they’ve typed before criticizing someone else’s grammar.
Until I moved to SC, I’d never even heard of The Citadel. You keep telling yourself that it’s a prestigious institution of higher education, if that’s what makes you happy.
Right along side my fallen Clemson Brothers…
Has anyone taken a swipe at Clemson (which by the way used to be a superb military school) or are you just trolling? The comment above from squishy relates brings in question the military training at The Citadel…
Okay, Ben. Read slowly so that you can understand. There are no more fallen soldiers at Arlington with Citadel degrees than Clemson degrees or USC degrees or Francis Marion degrees. Most Citadel grads do not go into the military. And if they did, they would not be ranked any higher than someone from another non-military college.
The Citadel… an Academy wannabe school. Graduates want the respect given to Academy graduates, but it doesn’t take people long to realize that its nothing close. The Citadel is more like a large college fraternity.
No Squishy. To get into a college fraternity, one has to be invited and voted on by the entire membership. To get into The Citadel, any asshole is admitted as long as he scores mediocre on the SAT.
Is the military training at The Citadel that much more different then any other ROTC program?
They get to wear those fancy hats with feathers sticking out of the top.
Well that alone seems enough to draw in some of those who attend.
There is no military training at the Citadel other then the same basic stuff you get in ROTC. Citadel grads are no better then other ROTC grads, academy grads, or enlisted.
There are men that died in the service of their country and are buried at Arlington that went to East Carolina. That doesn’t make ECU a military college.
Squishy123 = troll
Does this mean we’re going to see those stupid, gay looking, “Save The Males”, bumper stickers on every other car as we did in the nineties?
and when they excited they do pushups in unison, get pumped up, then bump dickheads. Much better bonding than a Corps handshake or fist bump, wouldn’t you say?
Ahh… I do remember those. For the younger readers, I’ll explain. When a handful of girls wanted to attend the Citadel, there was a big kerfuffle among the alums. Many alums spent big bucks trying to keep girls out because they thought it would devalue the Citadel. Many alums put bumper stickers on their cars that read “Save the Males” with some sort of Citadel logo.
“Save the Males” was a takeoff on the environmentalist’s “Save the Whales” campaign. [Insert Shannon Faulkner joke/reference here.]TBG was in Key West in the late 70’s early 80’s shortly after a shrimp boat loaded with marijuana struck a reef and sank. Local teens were sporting “Save the Bales” stickers on their new (paid for with cash) vehicles…
Nancy Mace was the first female Citadel graduate.
Could someone please get The Colonel. I have a real question. How many of the Citadal grads actual go on to active duty, and in what branches of service. Not beign a wise guy, just asking.
According to Wikipedia: Approximately 40% of graduates are commissioned as military officers in the active or reserve components with another 10% going directly to graduate programs
I’d guess that half of those are National Guard… so about 20% go active duty, maybe double that of any other non-military college. The rest go to work for their family law firm or become political interns.
Thank you.
Actually the statistics they give you are for active duty service. They get commissioned as a part of the ROTC program at the college. It varies but ranges around 30-40% depending on the year.
So since they’re ROTC it’s really no different than any other university that participates in ROTC programs?
The difference is that you are guaranteed active duty if you choose so because it is a Senior Military College.
Very few actually go into the National Guard out of that percentage. I personally only know of about 3 graduating this year that are.
I’m a grad, hazing has no place in the professional setting…but neither does coercion.
THANK YOU !! SOME ONE OF IMPORTANCE THAT ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDS!! This school is becoming more like regular college. It is not what I expected it to be and I am dissapointed.
The citadel is the paper tiger of colleges. The grads and cadets act like they’re tough shit and are better then other people. Honestly some of the most disgusting individuals I ever met went there. Now I can also name a few of the best I’ve met that went there too, but they’re the minority.
You learn to drill (kinda), PT(which is good admittedly), and get yelled at. Beyond that it’s the same as any college except with no personal responsibility. You’d be better off doing ROTC and getting a gym membership.
You are one of those miserable specimens who has never felt pain from being pushed to the limit.
How awesome is it that your class is 69′?
69? Is that how y’all ‘haze’ the ‘knobs’?
Schwul?
Whatever you say my friend, whatever you say. All I can say that is I’ve been there and done that.
Seriously ? No personal responsibility that’s a joke!!! Everyday we have to hold ourselves accountable to go to formations, class, meetings, pt , studying, being back on time with time to spare and much more! The reason we’re different than any other school in the country is we go by an honor system which if you lie, steal, or cheat you automatically be kicked out and that makes you have a responsibility to do your own legitimate work unlike wherever you go. If you even go to college. Come to a real honorable school and see how you make it. You can’t say what you don’t know and what you haven’t experienced.
So you’re saying you’re told where to be, when to be there, and what to do once there? Wow, thats a lot of personal responsibility there my friend. You must make a lot of decisions. And when you have a very large percentage of the corps repeatedly flaunting regulations because they feel they’re stupid, then there is no honor. The very fact that cadets are penalized by their peers and superiors for reporting hazing or for refusing to lie says all one needs to about their honor; there is none.
The Citadel is nothing more then a bunch of frat-bros in a fake uniform and a false sense of superiority when their peers in other colleges do the same shit except they do it without being told.
Funny, the vast majority of “experts” on military schools have never attended a military school.
Well in that case jokes on you. Definitely did.
That’s right, I forgot, you graduated from Schwuler Military Academy in 1998.
Nope, went to the Citadel.
BS
Call BS all you want, doesn’t make it less true. I still remember half those stupid little diddies.
Schwul
I think most that go here do so because 1 – they feel they need structure. 2 – It is a bit easier to get into than some of the other colleges in our state 3 – they feel it is prestigious to say they graduated from The Citadel and survived all of the toughness. If that is what you went for, then so be it.
And that’s fine. Sort of an extension of Camden Military Academy.
Big John’s burning down will affect the morale at The Citadel more than this “story.” This is something that happens every couple of years and those five guys probably were more aggressive towards the knobs than they needed to be. These 18-22 y/o kids with inflated senses of self importance. It’s bound to happen
4 of them were my personal friends and I know for a fact that they never laid hands on anyone. They withdrew because the commandant’s department told them it was that or get kicked out for hazing because they had knobs do PT, and when you get kicked out for hazing you aren’t granted access to your transcripts.
How many of those 4 now can walk through a door without having to grease their ears? (Their heads aren’t as big now)
Why did the commandant’s department single out those 4 boys?
So you know for a fact that they did not? You were with them 24/7? I doubt it big boy.
The Citadel is not a real military college. No ROTC classes required. Few grads join the military. It’s a great place for knucklehead boys who need a kick in the ass and some discipline.
ROTC classes are required here…
ROTC is required for everyone. It’s optional to commission, but there is a lot of extra work involved if you want to do that. I don’t see why it’s a bad thing — the military isn’t for everyone.
You can go down to Georgetown and ask Paige the racist Sawyer’s short boy Phillip about hazing. He was thrown out of the corp of cadets for hazing years ago. But Arthur Ravenel got him back into the school to quietly graduate a year later. But we did not read about that expulsion in any paper because when your daddy is connected things like this get swept under the rug.
I trust Captain Paluso’s judgement on this. He is a Citadel graduate who just retired as a SEAL Commander for crying out loud. If he says things have been getting out of hand, that’s good enough for me.
Yes threatening knobs that they will be kicked out if they don’t report someone that had them do push ups is great judgement. Ruining hundreds of young lives because you can is great judgement. We don’t force anyone to do anything here. They agree to submit to PT as a consequence if they fail to meet a standard set for them.
Questioning the chain of command doesn’t seem the prerogative of a cadet.
As a Citadel Grad and Cadet who volunteered to attend The Citadel in the middle of the 1960s and at the very height of the Vietnam War, I can tell you with all confidence that The Citadel is a different place during times of was and during times of peace.
Presently, we are in a time of Peace. Even though it may not seem so, with gallant soldiers fighting and dining in the middle east. We are not in a full call up, with a draft, and hundreds of soldiers dying each week, and thousands wounded each week. It’s a different kind of sorry ass war. One that not everyone has some skin in the game, as they should.
During intense wars like Vietnam, WW2, WW1, and etc. The Citadel, along with VMI, and the academies were run by the War Departments, i.e. Defense Dept. There was little room for weaklings and they were determined to weed out anyone who would break under fire in combat. Thus, came the hazing and driving men to their breaking point. Each man finding it and knowing how to deal with it. That is the real purpose of rigid hazing rituals. Not to say that hazing is proper. Only to say why it was done. The military looked for weakness and when they found it. They drummed you out whether you wanted to go or not.
I saw it first had at The Citadel, where during the Vietnam Was the enrollment got below 1200 cadets and was a military secret. They didn’t want the North Vietnam to know how much the country had turned against the war. Sparse parades were justified by lying about men gone for training that day.
It’s easy for people with no blood in the game to sit on the sidelines and throw tomatoes at The Citadel. But, during war, Echo Taps is played nearly every night for dead alumni dying for their country. While sidelines sit home complaining about how hard Citadel men are being trained.
But, when you have to murder (and that’s what combat really is: mass murder on an industrial scale) a man, or even a woman in combat. To kill that person, sometimes with a knife, butt of a rifle, or grenade. Or, fly a combat plane into drop napalm on people, gun them down with machine guns, or blow them to pieces. Possibly be killed yourself. Then how the hell do you train a man to do that??? Be nice, tell them it’s all fun and games. Later to see them break under fire and have all their men killed.
My standing orders were in Vietnam, if my men were ambushed was to run myself directly into the guns. Thus, committing suicide: because that is the only way out. To rush their guns. If you stand still you all die. How do you train a man to do that??? The Citadel knew how then and a hell of a lot of men died doing just that. Leading attacks from the front. Citadel and VMI alumni are known as attack officers. Not Staff officers like West Point. They are the tip of the sword, and we make no apologies for turning out men who can do just that: Lead from the Front.
The school has flaws. So does every other school. Clemson had a student die in a tragic fraternity hazing mishap only a few months ago – the real story of which has yet to be released. Does that make anyone judge Clemson as a whole for the acts of a few idiotic frat boys? No.
If you didn’t go to The Citadel, leave it alone. It’s not your place to judge and speculate on how life is at that school. I can assure you, you have no idea. It is hard, it drags on slowly for four years, and it takes an incredible amount of overall discipline to make it out with a degree. That is why The Citadel is valuable. Academics aren’t the only things that hold us accountable – every single thing we do on a daily basis is monitored and regulated.
Everyone takes away something different. Some learn mostly valuable lessons, some learn mostly poor lessons that affect their judgment. I learned that life is not always easy and fun. Sometimes you just have to man up and deal with it. Part of what I figured out later is how to differentiate between good and bad leadership. That is a LIFE LESSON that I feel is vital to success later on. Emulate the good, learn from the bad. You can’t learn what bad leadership is until you see it (or feel it). I also became close with a group of guys that will be my friends always and in every situation – something only the actual military can duplicate.
Moral of the story, The Citadel is laced with incredible people who go on to do incredible things for their communities and for their families. It is not a place to go if you want to skate by. Go to the other 99% of colleges in America for that. People love to disrespect what they weren’t able to do themselves.
Lay off the Citadel president, terminate the board of visitors, and shut down the school for a year or two while outsiders fix the underlying problem.
What was that Vietnam movie that had the pervert upper officer who like to abuse (murder?) prostitutes while in his underwear but sporting a pistol holster? Didn’t the movie have a line that he was a Citadel grad? He jumped out of a helicopter at the very end. Some writer or director had some fun with that I expect.
ITBGRC,Gregory Hines was in it.
Googling…
“Off Limits”
The thing that makes our school special is being distinct and separate from other colleges around the world. People have a hard time understanding things that are not the “norm”. By coming to this school you give up the certain attributes of attending other colleges.
Like academic excellence.
Because our college is not “normal” and different than other colleges its hard for people to understand it purpose. Most of us chose to go to this school for many different reasons. One main reason is that it sets us apart from the rest of society in order to better ourselves and develop a brotherhood that would last forever. The same instances go on in Fraternities only our way of conducting it has a more military background due to our heritage.
The Citadel is meant for a specific type of person and in recent years it has been made specific to every single type of person. THIS is NOT its purpose. Before starting my knob year I was told to think of it as a game a game that would test myself physically, mentally, and morally. The friendships that I made here began with Knob year as we paid for each others mistakes and developed our own senses of camaraderie and self. It prepares us as leaders for life situations. You come down for breakfast and your uniform is messed up you get yelled at and possibly other types of “reinforcement” to fix ourselves. You come to work late a couple times and eventually your going to get fired. We are on a strict schedule we cant leave when ever we want we have to eat at specific times. We chose this life because it is what we wanted. I can call people from all walks of life my brothers because of this school and no one can ever take that away. However, I fear that this same opportunity will not be available in the future. I would like to advise all of you to google “influential/famous people” who have graduated from this great school and tell me what it is that is so wrong about this fabulous institution.
The problem is the arrogance and sense of entitlement that goes with it. Citadel grads are not any better then those who aren’t on average, they don’t particularly make better leaders or people, they just wear uniforms better.
The Citadel gets state funding because it is one of older colleges in the state. But I am sure if you can cut their state supported funding it will help make up the deficit S.C. State is operating under. Like every college and university, The Citadel has good and bad graduates. Fortunately, some of both help defend your freedom and right to free speech.
Thank God I was able to attend THE CITADEL, 1973-1977
By the way, based on grades, job security, alumni success, physical fitness and every other category that a college can be judged for, The Citadel is the number 1 (O-N-E) public school in the southern United States… 4 years in a row.
*note: this is the most accurate article I’ve read concerning the hazing scandal.
Hey look! An article about The Citadel draws snide comments from people who didn’t go there. Never seen that before.
El Cid receives federal and state tax dollars. We all have a right to comment, dude!
A decent article.
Just a lot of butthurt keyboard warriors in the comments section! :D
If you aren’t required to join any branch of the military, then what good does it to to haze someone? I do believe, for the betterment of our country to be protected, that physical training and some sorts of hazing are acceptable at true military colleges that require you to enlist (West Point). If there is no true purpose for someone to enlist and only attends the college because their family did in the past, then I see that this is on the same level as fraternity and sorority hazing.
If you haven’t experience cadet life at the Citadel, your comment has little validity.