Mande Wilkes: Vaccination Debate Needs Healthy Skepticism
IT’S GOOD TO QUESTION “HERD IMMUNITY” || By MANDE WILKES || I bet you remember yoYou must Subscribe or log in to read the rest of this content.
IT’S GOOD TO QUESTION “HERD IMMUNITY” || By MANDE WILKES || I bet you remember yoYou must Subscribe or log in to read the rest of this content.
120 comments
As a conservative republican I think that every good parent should stop vaccinating their children now. Jesus will take care of them. You’ll see.
Same with seat beats. Stop. No need. Jesus will place himself between your child and the dash, the window, the door, whatever, and the other car.
I don’t even bother driving. I let Jesus take the wheel, so I can text.
lol….that’s pretty funny even though I think people she be allowed to do what they want as long as they aren’t hurting others. Kudos to your for your sense of humor.
If your kid has the measles, you know it, & then expose her/her to other kids you should be able to be prosecuted.
On the other hand, you shouldn’t be forced to vaccinate your kid either.
Like my grandfather used to say..”shit in one hand, pray in the other and see what fills up first..”
your grandpappy used to shit in his hand?
While praying? I guess it’s better than poisonous snakes?
He prayed to his hand? What, thanking Hand for the great Job? I guess at some level it makes sense. “The Book of Hand says, ” Come to me oh ye of heavy burden and heavy heart I will relieve you.” Makes sense so far
I think its shit in one hand want in the other and see which fills up faster. But hey Grandpa was Old right?????
Think your right Toyota..my bad.
We need a culling of the heard. Go for it, “skeptical, caring parents”. I’m sure your kids will do just fine.
It may not conform to your political worldview, but the reality of life aboard this rock hurtling through space is “we’re all in this together.”
Skepticism is fine as long as it respects factual findings and NOT conspiracy theories.
TRY BEING SKEPTICAL OF THE MSM
Warning to South Carolina Haters: SC is not on the worst end of these rankings.
If Republicans have a anti-vaxx problem, how come the vaccination rates are lower in blue states?
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2015/02/mapping-measles-vaccine-coverage-around-the-country
Look at the map of the measles outbreak map.
http://www.cnn.com/specials/health/measles
MSM perceptions vs. Reality. Think outside the MSM box.
Get rid of your ignorant biases. Republicans support solid science in favor of vaccination. Just because the the MSM cornered a few Republicans and don’t do the same to Democrats doesn’t change the facts. It’s many of the Hollywood liberals who oppose vaccination.
Republicans are more likely to vaccinate there children than Democrats.
More Republicans than Democrats have a college education.
thats true. this is not a partisan issue at all. that appears to be widely known outside of wilkes’ head.
About time this isn’t at the bottom of a particular ranking. Doesn’t change anything though.
Republicans are just more used to being in a herd.
Typical…. no data just assertions…. YOU LIE! http://www.fiercevaccines.com/story/survey-anti-vaccine-views-have-little-correlation-politics/2014-01-29
Here are some more things to question, Mande dear: gravity, the speed of light, heliocentrism, spherical shape of the earth, quantum mechanics, continental drift, the germ theory of disease. You don’t have to question evolution by natual selection, however, since you are helping to bring it about. The herd will be thinned of the stupid.
Mande has more common (and uncommon) sense in her toenail clippings than Taylor Brown will ever aspire to have. Too bad many of the commenters on here are on Taylor’s end of the scale and not Mande’s.
If your kid has had all of their vaccinations in lockstep with what Nanny Government requires or would like to require, what skin is it off of your butt if the kid who sits next to them in class has been vaccinated or not?
Will those wonderful vaccinations not keep your kid safe?
Greetings fellow member of society! How are you today? I am here to inform you that your current opinion is misinformed. The MMR shot (immunization for measles, mumps, and rubella) will “protect” your child from illness, however (like birth control, or the annual flu shot) it is not 100% effective in all possible transmission scenarios. In addition to protecting against transmission, it reduces the serious symptoms your child may get from the illness. It makes it harder to get and easier to recover from, but it does not mean it is impossible to contract the illness if exposed. The higher the immunization rate of your local population, the less likely your child is exposed and the less likely they will contract the illness. This public service announcement has been brought you by the “It’s Just Common Sense You F*****G Moron” department of Society. Please make a note of it.
Bet you don’t (or won’t) mind so much when Nanny Govt sends you those Social Insurance checks to your account every month–and keeps sending them to your widow. Or pay those medical bills, especially the ones in your last year of life. If someone T-Bonz your driver side door and leaves you unemployable I bet you won’t bitch when you get the disability checks either.
Damn straight I won’t mind those SS checks when my time comes, if I live that long. I have been forced to pay significant portions of my income into that system under threat of force for all of my adult life.
Just found out I hat to pay $400 as a “fine”(thanks Justce Sellout Roberts) for not having insurance that I cannot afford, even though I haven’t been to a doctor in over 7 years. Ain’t government just fucking wonderful?
Significant portions? Really? God, what a burden it must have been. Seems like getting a pension, life insurance, and disability insurance for what you paid is a pretty good deal to me. It’s called social insurance. It’s not just about you
Make your Jesus jokes. Ignore the facts. No major religion objects to vaccination. Most of the objections to vaccination are philosophical not religious. Church goers have higher than average vaccination rates.
http://national.deseretnews.com/article/3483/religious-objections-to-vaccinations-there-really-arent-any.html
Doesn’t fit the narrative, does not compute….
Thanks for pointing that out. That is the case w/ a lot of liberal mythology. They use faith to attack…even when it does not apply in the least…But bigotry against Christians motivates their hateful soldiers…
This “hateful soldier” is motivated by “christians”like you who spew hateful attacks against anyone who dares shit in their playpen of deceit and lies.
Care to be more specific.
Or, are you just another Dumb@$$ pop culture jockey who mimics the clichés of the leftwing because you’re too Stupid to originate a thought, and it’s the easy way out for the gutless like you? …You impress me as the type who cares only about getting patted on the back…by corrupt, immoral and dangerous bigots…who are like you…
Newsflash: Bit dog hollers- uses pejorative language while spouting vapid thoughts.
An empty-headed Dumb@$$…just like I guessed. Thanks for proving it.
Hola bit dog… I have gone back and reviewed many of your previous comments and I think I have discovered a theme. Your vituperative statements about homosexuals and use of various forms of the the word ass a common descriptive leads me to the conclusion that you are indeed closeted. I am sure that once you open your heart and you @ss you to will see the light.
Big F*#king deal if I were. Are you a F*#king Bigot Hypocrite liberal Homophobe against Gays…???…
Gays have every right to be that..it’s none of YOUR or my business…
Why is it Stupid Redneck, Liberals – like you – try to impress the “sophisticated” Yankees you kneel before, by exalting homosexuals…but you constantly accuse the people you hate of being “gay” in order to insult them..You F*#king @$$-Backward, Dumb@$$…
Your brain is obviously so constipated with guilt and hatred — “Free your mind and the rest will follow.”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iQbBbMAFE
I think there’s a sense it’s a religious thing because it’s an “uninformed opinion” issue and we are so used to that coming from the religious right (evolution, global warming, HPV…) This one does seem to be equal opportunity for both red/blue, and I think it has more to do with gullibility and misinformation for helicopter-y parents, which spans the spectrum! It’s like the insanity over “stranger danger” which basically is more rare than beating the house in Vegas.
You mean that dog in the trench coat that used to come to my school and told to never get in a car with a stranger unless they gave me candy lied? What has this world come to?
Yep. You can’t even trust crime fighting dogs. Also, try as I might, I haven’t prevented one forest fire even though that asshole bear kept telling me it was my responsibility.
Oh, and the data: The US Crime Rate is the lowest it’s been since 1967. Well done society!
Wait..what? They told me I needed to be really really skeerd and that I needed to buy more guns cause the bad guys and pissed off minorities were going to start a war. What’s a patriot to believe?
Keep the Jesus jokes going. I heard in a sermon that he has a sense of humor. Only sometimes they don’t translate so well to Spanish
Skepticism on this topic is easy when millions of people aren’t dying thanks to the solution that you deem as “acceptable” to criticize.
Hi, I’m Rob Lowe. And I’m overly paraniod Rob Lowe.
What are you up to?
There’s nothing inherently good in skepticism. What matters is whether a skeptic is willing to be persuaded by facts. Remaining a skeptic in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence makes one a skeptic and and idiot.
Well said.
You’re right, but this is Sakerlina. The earth is not warming, the earth is flat, common core was sent from Karl Marx himself and vaccines are the work of the liberal left.
“common core was sent from Karl Marx himself”
Yea, but let’s be honest. If that were true you’d be ok with it.
+10
-10
yeah, cause capitalism is perfect of course.
Excellent non-denial.
“Yea, but let’s be honest. If that were true you’d be ok with it.”
Uh-huh. Let’s be totally honest.
Just like you’re okay with all those idiots that blame natural disasters on divine retribution and probably spend the majority of your time trying to “pray away the gay”.
Why are you commenting on gay concerns instead of enjoying my funny observation?
“Why are you commenting on gay concerns instead of enjoying my funny observation?”
You made a funny observation? When and where?
Follow the money
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/02/06/money-behind-anti-vaccine-movement/
How you followed the money on the pro mandatory vaccine side? (Hint: It leads to big Pharma)
Capitalism is good… watch: CAPITALISM IS GOOD!
Depends on what type of capitalism we are talking about, and what the definition of “good” is. (I feel like Bill Clinton right now)
How about that the free market is the best for an unsolvably imperfect world?
:)
Have you followed the money to the anit-vaccine side? It leads to Jenny McCarthy.
Sasquatch owns Big Pharma? This goes deeper than I ever suspected
Sasquatch has got the money? Damn.
This issue does not break along ideological lines, sadly. At its core, it is simply a public health issue. In a civilized society (to which we aspire) members have obligations to one another. Immunization is one of them. The science proves immunization works. Immunization by those who are able protects those too young to be immunized and that small part of the population medically ineligible.
I read an interesting piece last week that pointed out this same phenomenon occurred back in the 1890s when some folks had the same idea. Of course, when smallpox came roaring back they were quickly discredited.
You will note that due to smallpox vaccinations being mandatory for years, smallpox has been eradicated from this Earth, and today smallpox vaccinations are no longer routinely required.
US military personnel deployed to the Middle East are still required, even though the last case of smallpox “in the wild” occurred in 1977.
You know that the reason we got that damn shot was because of the chance that smallpox could be weaponized.
We thought Poliomyelitis was eradicated as well.
“Poliomyelitis”
lmao! Very good.
Some people are incurable.
Having two friends with polio – I don’t see a damn thing funny about it.
Horrible, and permanently disfiguring.
I guess he thought my using “poliomyelitis” was funny for some reason…
Yeah, infantile paralysis is so hilarious.
It was purely my ignorance. I thought it was a play on words. (Elitis)
Please forgive my ignorance and accept my apology.
Tom,
You clearly are not aware of biological warfare tactics. Just because its not “in the wild,” doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist–in a vial–with ample delivery methods available.
Quick history: http://www.emedicinehealth.com/biological_warfare/article_em.htm
Oh..and specifically with smallpox.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/fda-found-more-than-smallpox-vials-in-storage-room/2014/07/16/850d4b12-0d22-11e4-8341-b8072b1e7348_story.html
Au contraire: I am aware that samples of the virus still exist in US and Russian bio labs. Of course, Glenn Beck or Alex Jones may know of other sites.
Fortunately, the current vaccine has some ability to lesson the impact if administered promptly after exposure to the virus.
Glenn and Alex said they keep much of the secret disease stores in the FEMA death camps. Check there first.
Tom,
Of course I’m not quoting Glenn or Alex–nor would I–as you’ve seen my arguments a while now.
Rather, I have, in fact, seen intel on the stored cultures at issue. Is it likely that they will be used? Of course not! But in a balancing of risk versus return (or cost vs. benefit), it seems that an ounce of prevention is much better than a pound of cure. No?
By the way…if an infantry unit is clearing buildings during urban warfare…at what point are they supposed to “promptly administer” the current vaccine? (assuming they want to have someone humping the med-kits around the whole time)
I don’t think its a great idea to create an open puncture wound (multiple wounds) in a combat–clearly non-sterile–environment.
Just sayin’
Some military personnel are vaccinated for smallpox, and other diseases not found in a normal vaccination schedule. There have been even new vaccines created for smallpox, one released/approved/used in 2008 or so. and a broader point to idiot authors like ms wilkes, smallpox killed 500 million people. in 1918 the flu (the spanish flu epidemic) killed more people in 24 weeks than HIV/AIDS did in the first 24 years since the diagnosis of Patient Zero. Unfortunately we have no vaccine for HIV. We do have vaccines for flu but the prediction models are not perfect. There is vaccine research into very essential and conserved proteins in the flu virus which will hopefully result in a universal (or very near universal) influenza vaccine.
“Sasquatch are real, I’ve seen them, they’re here…” – Bobo.
“And I chose to immunize my own child, if on a slightly modified schedule.” Mande, you are indeed a skeptic and for that I applaud you. If the government had it’s way, it would require your child to receive the whole heap of vaccines all at the same time. Obviously, you are a conscientious young mother who believes it is better not to overload a child with too many vaccines in one day.
MMR does not cause autism. No credible peer reviewed study or paper has linked the two. The one Lancet published got retracted because the dude was a fraud. Yet again the right takes up the banner of anti-science, this time in their inextinguishable thirst for anti-Obama rhetoric.
Measles was never dead either, it was a disease very much controlled until the dumbfuck hippy crunchy mom brigade decided to help open up spots of vulnerability.
Might look at some of those “dreamers” coming across our southern border as a vector as well.
Have you got any documented cases of undocumented migrants causing the current measles outbreak…or are you just reciting emails forwarded to you from grandma and grandpa?
http://www.texastribune.org/2014/06/24/health-officials-docs-raise-concerns-about-immigra/
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6332a4.htm?s_cid=mm6332a4_e
Did you read this- flu and pneumonia with vaccinations and “no adverse effects”. No Polio or measles among the thousands checked.
The following list includes some of the interventions, illnesses, and relevant websites that have been identified for the unaccompanied children arriving from Central America.
http://emergency.cdc.gov/children/pdf/cdc-factsheet-ph-uc-08-01-14-final.pdf
So while they do not have a patient zero in the measles case, they are operating under the hypothesis that this came from one of 14 countries (which I am having a hard time getting a complete list), whether visiting legally or not. There is documented evidence that the unaccompanied minors from 2014, if they were lucky enough to survive the trip without getting something or other, they were exposed to horrible conditions in the detention centers. It is also possible that someone was exposed to measles via an unaccompanied child and then brought that to Disneyland, one out of many scenarios. I did find this updated document on the spread of the Disneyland outbreak, it is definitely worth a read. And it made me want to go get a booster shot: http://pediatrics.about.com/od/measles/a/measles-outbreaks.htm
Your first sentence says it all.
All the links to all the stories you sent just talked about “conditions are favorable for a spread of infectious diseases” and shit like that.
Turn your gaze to liberal hippie parents and religious right wing nuts here in the US for the most obvious reason this is happening.
Scenarios…. no data.
“Have you got any documented cases of undocumented migrants causing the current measles outbreak…or are you just reciting emails forwarded to you from grandma and grandpa?”
Of course they don’t. But that idiot Brigid will post all kinds of crap while foaming at the mouth about it.
Mexico is better at immunization than we are. The vector has gone the other way since the Disneyland outbreak infected someone visiting from south of the border.
“Mexico’s paternalistic approach has led to a 96% vaccination rate for children ages 1 to 4, compared with 79% of American 2-year-olds.”
http://www.vaccinationnews.org/DailyNews/December2002/MexicoMore22.htm
Nice try on turning it into an immigration debate, though. Classic trolling. Bra-vo!
Bollocks. That is from 2002, and is a lie, just look at the death rates from preventable diseases. You’d have to be nuts to believe the Mexican government to being with. Check the CD advisory on traveling to Mexico: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/mexico/
This is a link to a pdf, Primary Health Issues
HHS’s Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) manages the routine medical screening and data collected on illnesses from the unaccompanied children. The following list includes some of the interventions, illnesses, and relevant websites that have been identified for the unaccompanied children arriving from Central America. http://emergency.cdc.gov/children/pdf/cdc-factsheet-ph-uc-08-01-14-final.pdf
Yeah well we don’t allow “Mehicans” to stay – the kids that came across the border were from a little further south and most of them weren’t kids.
“Might look at some of those “dreamers” coming across our southern border as a vector as well.”
The “dreamers” are already here.
I doubt most of those “dumbfuck hippy cruncy moms” are right-wingers. Anti-science, yes, but overwhelmingly left-wing.
Who cares what wing they sit on. If they are being stupid and causing health problems in the greater population, they need to be educated and get their kids immunized. It’s not a partisan issue. It’s a health issue.
The only anti-vaccers I know are all left-wing loons ad the people with national platforms like Jenny McCarthy are most certainly libs, but yet the right is being blamed for a liberal trend, how in the hell does that work?
Data to prove your assertion? Or just your “guess”?
Maybe this will shut you up about who is anti-vax….”The latest data comes from a survey of 2,316 U.S. adults by a researcher
who works at the universities of Yale and Harvard. While questions
about human-caused climate change divided along political lines–with
liberals believing it is happening and conservatives denying it–there
was no such correlation with anti-vaccine views. The vast majority of
people believe the benefits of childhood vaccinations outweigh the
risks, regardless of their politics. And the survey found anti-vaccine
views are more common among Republicans.
Although the data clashes with some peoples’ perception of the
typical vaccine skeptic, it chimes with previous surveys. In 2009 the
Pew Research Center found almost 50% more Democrats than Republicans
said they would take the swine flu
vaccine. More detailed data emerged last year from a Public Policy
Polling survey of 1,247 U.S. voters. PPP found 12% of people who
described themselves as very liberal believe vaccines cause autism, compared with 22% of hardline conservatives.
What both surveys show is that antivaccination views are held by just
a small minority of people. As the Yale-Harvard report puts it, “a very
large supermajority believes that the benefits of childhood
vaccinations outweigh their risks.” The statement is consistent with
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
data on childhood vaccinations–which shows more than 90% of kids
receive their shots–but not with what many people think. Most
respondents significantly underestimated vaccination rates.”
http://www.fiercevaccines.com/story/survey-anti-vaccine-views-have-little-correlation-politics/2014-01-29
Check out the Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund. It is a pool of money created by the Government and pharmaceutical companies to compensate children who suffer adverse reactions from vaccines. These adverse reactions include seizures, neurological disorders such as Gilliane Barre Syndrome (which can leave you partially paralyzed), Stevens Johnsons Syndrome, and even death. The Fund is an acknowledgement by the Government and the pharmaceutical companies that a certain small percentage of the children will suffer serious illness and even death by taking vaccines. It appears that the enlightened elite know about the risk of serious side effects of vaccines and choose to take their chances with the risk of contracting the underlying disease. Why hasn’t the main stream media mentioned the known side effects for these vaccines, instead of discrediting the connection between vaccines and autism? One last thing, unless there is a medical explanation for the austism epidemic, parents are going to remain skeptical about the claim that vaccines have no impact the developmental of children’s brains.
There is an extremely small, but real, risk of severe side effects (not autism, but the other stuff you mention) to most vaccines. So there is a certain rationality to withholding vaccination and avoiding that small risk while still getting the benefit of herd immunity. The problem is when immunization rates drop below ~92% herd immunity is compromised. Now your unvaccinated kid is at real risk of contracting an avoidable disease, not to mention passing it along to others who aren’t vaccinated for legitimate (too young; immunocompromised) or illegitimate reasons.
Regarding autism, the primary driver of the epidemic is increased rates of recognition and diagnosis, not necessarily a greater actual incidence.
Some mentally retarded children are being labeled as being on “The Spectrum” – yes. However, there ARE more children with true Autism now. I knew of only one child with Autism back in the 1960’s. Explain that.
Citation needed. The data. Science. The research says there are probably NOT more kids with autism now. Maybe you just didn’t have many friends when you were a kid?
What “research” are you talking about? Autism is a serious growing problem. There is no cure. No one knows what causes it.
The research on whether it’s a growing problem or not. It’s not. You’re wrong.
Diagnostic criteria for autism weren’t even included in the DSM until the 3rd edition came out in 1980.
Many diagnoses were not included in the DSM before 1980. However, Autism DID exist. It was not nearly as prevalent as it is now. Just look around…if you know what true autism is, then you know it when you see it.
Okay… So, just to clarify, you are FOR the “nanny state”?
There is probably no autism “epidemic” any more than there is a link between autism and vaccines. This article from Scientific American explains why you are wrong in your basic assumption of the issue:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-really-an-autism-epidemic/
“Over time the criteria for a diagnosis of autism have loosened, resulting in the labeling of substantially more mildly afflicted individuals as autistic.”
And
“As the rates of the autism diagnosis increased from 1994 to 2003, the rates of diagnoses of mental retardation and learning disabilities decreased. It is possible that the overall pool of children with autismlike features has remained constant but that the specific diagnoses within this pool have switched.”
So, there is evidence that a need for a “medical explanation for the autism epidemic” is a waste of time and erroneous. Presented with facts like these, will you reconsider your opinion or jump up and down about Scientific American being a tool of big pharma?
So all pretty women are stupid?
I didn’t realize you are pretty!
Just because you fucked all your other sons,doesn’t mean you’ll get your hands on me,baby raper.
The Earth is flat.
**look at me being skeptical!**
You’re being healthy!
Is that what the Republican heath care alternative is, being healthy through skepticism?
I’m skeptical of your skepticism.
This from the woman who proposed that women are to blame in domestic violence cases.
“Womans be thankin’ too much!”
Speaking of, see number 3 (and others).
http://www.rantlifestyle.com/2014/03/21/20-hottest-female-republican-politicians/#slide_36
I am very skeptical about your skepticism, Mande.
But I appreciate your articles even though I do not always agree.
And I really appreciate that you are not twenty-something.
In 90 seconds an analysis of the debate on autism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo#t=79
It is by Penn and Teller.
just to keep up the tradition here at Fits…. Man-D U suck still after this long layoff
Might look at some of those “dreamers” coming across our southern border as a vector as well.