Boeing SC: The Union Is Coming
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273 comments
“As much as this website has criticized Boeing in the past (with good reason), we don’t want to see organized labor gain a major foothold in the Palmetto State … even it if is at the expense of these crony capitalists.”
You’re really gonna pick one of the two scorpions in a bottle huh?
Step back for a moment and think about this from a truly libertarian(not Libertarian) perspective:
If the Unions were not in bed with gov’t in any way, would the premise of belonging to a Union be a problem for a liberty minded person?
NO!!!!
They would be violating the non-aggression principle in any way shape for form, and that is the basis for libertarianism.
As long as membership is purely voluntary and Unions are threatening anyone, it all should be good.
Now, in reality, we know both Unions and Boeing use government as a hammer on each other…so picking one over the other, aside from being stupid, is inconsistent with libertarian values.
My advice is you report on it, but don’t take sides…but it’s your blog and I value property rights so do what you want.
Edit:
*The WOULDN’T be violating
You make a good point. Workers should be free to organize to set up collective bargaining. However, they should not be coerced into joining a union. Card Check, as well as other invasive and coercive tactics, should not be allowed.
Thank you. The foundational principle of libertarianism is simply the “non-aggression principle”.
It is also the most misunderstood principle(if even known) by the general public.
One one seeks to understand what a libertarian position would be, they can figure it out on their own 95% of the time by understanding the “NAP”(non-aggression principle)
*When one
You don’t have to correct your grammar. This is SC, we expect and ignore typos, son!
would the premise of belonging to a Union be a problem for a liberty minded person?
Oh no, of course not. In a libertarian world, you’d just fire all the unionized folks and hire other folks even more desperate for work and pay them even less. For the “liberty-minded” captain of industry it’s just trading peasants. For the unionized folks its back to starvation. For the desperate folks its temporary and small reprieve from starvation.
When the desperate folks aren’t as desperate, but at the same time want, say, three meals a day, and when they decide to band together and collectively ask for it, the “liberty-minded” captain of industry fires them and very likely hires some of the people he initially fired.
It’s the ciiiiiiircle of liiiiiiiiiiiiiiberrrrrrrrrtyyyyyyyyyyy!
Do you feel even the slightest twinge of remorse when you “make fun” of the concept of “liberty”?
In your delusional world of an ever caring, “proper functioning” gov’t that is populated by mythic angles…have you ever considered that you still might want to have personal choice whether you are an employee or employer?
Or are you like a cow, just happy to be cared for and fed before the slaughter?
Do you feel even the slightest twinge of remorse when you “make fun” of the concept of “liberty”?
What, does that make you mad?
When unions first started people were paid barely enough to stay afloat, and bitching about it got your ass fired quick and replaced with another starving schmo who, hopefully, would be less inclined to ask to keep more than just his/her lips above water.
That’s liberty, but for who? Certainly not the average worker.
I’m not even bringing up the “freedumbs” of child labor, company stores, working 60 hour work weeks, no sick days, no vaycay, or any of the other various abuses of the working class in the not-so-distant history of our country.
That’s not liberty or freedom for the little guy. That’s what most people called Hell. That’s what our forefathers fought for us to not have to experience, and I’d prefer if we didn’t spit on their graves by going right back to it.
So fuck this so-called “liberty.”
“What, does that make you mad?”
No, it actually astounds me, and makes me sad(for you).
“That’s not liberty or freedom for the little guy. That’s what most people called Hell.”
The days of early industrialization were not pretty, but the reality was that formative economics were in, not a “not pretty” place, and hence the barbarism you describe was still preferable to the barbarism of starvation, poverty, etc.
You act like there were other choices about. There are none in a world of scarcity. Wealth and it’s side effects are not created by gov’t, it is created by free market activites.
Gov’t is a destroyer of wealth.
To your point, ask a homeless kid in India if he’d rather work in a sweat shop inside and out of the elements for a guaranteed pay or comb mounds of trash rain or shine for the prospect of finding something of value….
Either way he answers, “gov’t” does not change the reality of his options…just like back in the time you are referring.
To conflate this idea of “options”- the state of economics(and scarcity), with the notion that a gov’t can create wealth is your “Fatal Conceit”.
If we didn’t have history to look at, one might believe what you say is true. But it turns out we do. We know that unbridled capitalism leads to the rise of monopolies and oligarchy. We know that, as in Russia today, oligarchs use government to keep people in line and preferably poor and dumb. The reason conditions were as bad as they were during the early industrial revolution of the US is that Oligarchs were running the country. It was not until Roosevelt broke the backs of the monopolies that things begin to get better for the poor, and the middle class arose. If that had not happened we would probably be Russian style Oligarchy today.
Unions did not arise in a vacuum. The were a self defense mechanism. A defense against an economic system that was rigged to keep workers poor and dumb, so that the rich and powerful had a constant labor source. Surviving as a slave or starving isn’t a hard choice, but neither is the decision to survive liberty.
It is generally not unions in bed with government. It is usually the rich and powerful who are not only in bed with government, government becomes their proxy. That is the norm we need to guard against. That is the real threat to liberty. A prosperous, educated, middle class is no threat to liberty.
The answer is neither laissez fair capitalism or socialism. The answer has to be somewhere between.
If we didn’t have your made up history to look at, one might believe what you say is true.
“It is generally not unions in bed with government.”
That’s the funniest one. The UAW is hugely in bed with government. The IAM isn’t far behind either.
Btw, to reiterate as you must have missed it, but I’m not anti Union.
Whatever the pros or cons of unionization may be, considering the history of union organizers and striking workers being killed and wounded by gunfire from NG troops called out by a governor, perhaps the rhetoric about having “beaten back” the union was a poor choice of words.
There’s a history of violence by and again Unions going far back….Unions have been guilty of blockading, beating up “scabs”, etc., violating the property rights of companies as much as companies have been guilty of being disproportionate in their attempts to defend their property.
There is no one in this situation(Union, corporation, or gov’t) with “clean” hands.
*against
Great! Maybe they’ll actually start having some quality control.
Yeah like they do in Boeing Seattle (Renton) assembly facility –
73 – 737s have fallen out of the sky – all made in Seattle
50 – 727s have fallen out of the sky – all made in Seattle
787s with issues? The Seattle (Everett) assembly plant has as many “issues” as the Charleston plant. “…As recently as August, airplanes have come out of both factories regularly requiring extensive additional work, the Boeing workers say. A few days ago, 34 Dreamliners were parked at various locations on Paine Field…” http://www.theheraldbusinessjournal.com/article/20140917/SCBJ02/309179998
Yeah, looking for that “union label” makes the planes a lot better – not. That “union label” just makes them a lot more expensive.
Good points.
Of note, it would appear that–if what you say is true–there very well might be a “union problem;” however, based on your facts, it sounds like Boeing “proper” has a problem.
It’s a good thing that when I have to fly, I rarely end up flying commercial.
On the Bobby Harrell program?
:)
Before you take my point to far, consider that Boeing still makes the safest aircraft in the world. The numbers look bad but based on hour flown, Airbus is slightly more likely to fall out of the sky and Embraer out of Brazil is the most likely major producer to crash.
to,too,two
stop the insanity!
Yeah, yeah, I know to use too when it’s used as an “also” but the rest of the time I just guess….
God forbid any workers in SC have the option to fight for a living wage. Although, dirt cheap labor is what attracts businesses to SC in the first place.
Dirt-cheap labor, coupled with government incentives from the state. Take away either of those, and Haley’s much-ballyhooed jobs program falls apart.
Even the corporations are on welfare in SC. Yee-Haw!
So true.
Given the state of SC economy what would you do? It is easy to bitch about what others do, as long as we don’t have to make those decisions. Haley, in some ways akin to FDR, decided to try something new. No FDR fan, but can not think of anyone more capable of the job at the time. As FDR said, paraphrasing, we will try something and if it doesn’t work we’ll try something else. Failure is not an option. Regardless which side you Stand, think of the time and research all that happenened. A crippled (polio) potus saved our country. The longest serving lotus in US.
Cripple POTUS, I believe you meant to say.
Not going to argue that point, but I don’t see it applying to Haley.
Whatever fever term suits you best, same concept, different expression regarding FDR.
How does this apply to Haley? Both trying something new. I agree Haley is reluctant to change views, but of the lot willing to run for that sh*t job, we could have done much worse. I do think she cares about SC, while I may disagree with “some” of her policy. For all intent and purposes she has not had the authority to accomplish all that she wishes. They passed legislation that allows gov/Lt gov on same ticket, but not until she is out of office. She has no real power, even her vetoes are overridden. Who knows what she could accomplish?
She’s a conniving phoney. If SC had a REAL ethics commission, she would never have made it to the position of governor. All the “ethics reform” she has backed has been smoke and mirrors stuff.
Luckily, the average South Carolinian is to ignorant to know any better. It’s homosexuals and secret Muslim socialists (which unions surly fall under) that are holding them down, not the political party that’s been controlling things for many, many years.
I hate it, but you are right on the money.
Used to live there.
Surly unions?
That “controlling things for many, many years” comment must refer to Democrats who controlled the state in every elective office from 1828-1865 and then again from 1876-1987 except for four years under James Edwards.
Sorry Colonel – I think they’re referring to the baboons who’ve run the state into the ground circa 2001 to 2014 – and for infinity and beyond.
Hey Rock. I guess I was right…Obama is working for the terrorists in Iran? What the Democrats are saying.
Sorry sir, we’re talking about something else right now. Please call back later.
Yeah but you have to consider that we’ve been climbing out of the canyon that Democrats put our state in…
For 30 years? Seriously – for 30 years?
No, more like 18 – Republicans didn’t win control of the State House until 1996. Carroll Campbell, arguably our best gubernor had a solidly Democrat State House to work with for his entire eight years. and you’re forgetting Gubernor Hodges making it really something like 14.
Over 120 years+- to dig the hole versus less than 20 to get us out.
Dang, forgot that name. I must agree with you that Carroll Campbell was probably the best. Certainly hasn’t been any to measure up to him since – present one included. Still, I’m not prepared to give the local GOP (not saying all Republicans just local state GOP) a free pass on essentially running the state into the ground.
ANY Republican is better than a Democrat. The Democrat Party is being led by a Radical Islam sympathizer who is (according to the Democrats) a proxy for the Iranian regime.
Bibi…Bibi..Bibi!!! Thank you John Boehner!!!
Local aka state GOP is a freaking joke, and I typically vote R. We need more independents! Sick of this lame ass 2 party system.
Really lame talking points, Colonel. There was a shift in party identification from the Democrat to the Republican Party in S.C. It’s not like the people in power changed. The same people are still in charge, now they just put (R) after their name instead of (D).
Read my response above. That shift wasn’t as broad nor as universal as revisionist would like you to believe.
We all know that some people held onto their (D) label longer than others. Who cares? The shift is now almost absolute, but the fact remains that conservatives were once Democrats (or Dixiecrats) and now they are Republicans. They are the same people who’ve ruled S.C. with the exception of the Reconstruction.
U are a wise person. We need more of ya.
Stop thinking about Nikki’s sexual looks and do some homework on the facts. I’m starting to see the republican pervert in you.
Color me confused – what does Trikki Nikki’s “sexual looks” have to do with this thread?
your comments make zero sense. That’s why
Yeah.. real respect…….
You just nailed the biggest problem we have in SC today. The old moss backed Dims who changed party labels but not attitudes to keep their sorry asses in office. Till that generation dies out and is replaced by genuine Republicans it won’t change.
If Campbell was the best, then all the rest must have really sucked. Campbell was the Guv of BMW and all things upstate. He screwed over the low country all the time.
Everyone else dose as well. Check out how much development occurs below I20.
Come on, Colonel. You seem like someone who understands history. The Democrats (and Dixiecrats) of 1876-1987 are the same cultural group as the Republicans of today.
I hear that comment from revisionist historians all the time and it simply isn’t as true as they want you to believe. The only real Dixiecrat was Ol’Strom and the “party” such as it was lasted about 45 minutes. The thing that held them together was a universal loathing of Harry S. Truman. Not all Dixiecrats, in fact not even a majority of Democrats migrated to the Republican Party.
There were certainly some major “racists” that did. However, the most notable of those “racists”, Ol’Strom, had the first African American staffer in the Senate and about the worst thing you could say about his racial politics is that he had a mixed message. Strom never wore white sheets a la Robert “Grand Kleagle” Byrd – noted old school Democrat.
The Civil Rights legislation of the 1960’s and ’70’s triggered the mass exodus of WASPs from the Democratic to the Republican Party in the South. It was called the Southern Strategy. It started under Nixon and Harry Dent and was continued by Reagan/Bush and Lee Atwater. 1948 was merely the precursor to what came later. There is nothing revisionists about it, it is the plain truth.
But the way the “facts” are presented makes it appear that that mass exodus of WASPs contained millions of folks wearing white sheets and pointy hats and that is simply not the truth.
Harry Dent’s Southern Strategy did in fact play on race but Lee Atwater turned it on it’s head “…As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry Dent and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act of 1965 would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan] doesn’t have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he’s campaigned on since 1964 and that’s fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster….” Lee Atwater
Playing on race, socio-economic differences or religion is a part of nearly every political campaign – Republicans (new breed or old school) didn’t invent it nor did they perfect it (See Ben Tillman)
You can interpret that facts anyway you want but the idea that the Republican Party of today, or even 1975, was filled with former Democrat racists is simply not true.
Yes, ‘dog whistle’ rhetoric took the place of bold face racism, but it is just more subtle now. LBJ knew Civil Rights would cost the Democrats the South and he was right. You are in denial if you say that the George Wallace voters of the 60’s and ’70’s aren’t voting GOP these days. Robert Byrd’s youthful indiscretion doesn’t change that.
of course the same voters are voting today and just like the governor they have all moderated their opinions. my point is this there a racist in both parties galore the Republicans don’t have a special hold on that title.
Ouch! You had me right up to Lee Atwater. Ever read or watch his game? Uuuuuuugh! He knew how to win, but was there an honest bone in his body? Or did he die still playing the game?
And the first interracial baby? What a guy..
I thought we were blaming T. Jefferson for that (though it’s actually not true)!?!
You may be the only person still denying that Jefferson fathered Sally Hemings children. Even the blue blood Thomas Jefferson fan club at Monticello have owned up to it.
http://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-sally-hemings-brief-account
The entire story started as an attempt to smear Jefferson. The “scientific evidence”, primarily DNA only proves that one of seven Jefferson different could have men fathered Henning’s children.
From your article- “…On September 1802, political journalist James T. Callender, a disaffected former ally of Jefferson, wrote in a Richmond newspaper that Jefferson had for many years “kept, as his concubine…”
….Since then, a committee commissioned by the Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society, after reviewing essentially the same material, reached different conclusions, namely that Sally Hemings was only a minor figure in Thomas Jefferson’s life and that it is very unlikely he fathered any of her children. This committee also suggested in its report, issued in April 2001 and revised in 2011, that Jefferson’s younger brother Randolph (1755-1815) was more likely the father of at least some of Sally Hemings’s children.”
You must be a true TJ fanboy to have read the whole article and picked out the few sentences from the only group that denies that SOME of Heming’s children weren’t TJ’s.
Occam’s razor: They’re his kids. Also, while rumors of his black children may have started out as a way to slur Jefferson in the 1800s they certainly aren’t a source of embarrassment today. This willful ignorance of yours seems a little racist.
Sorry, there are several groups that disagree with the conclusion that the DNA test was conclusive proof that T.Jefferson was the father and in fact, it was not. All the DNA test really proved was that someone from Jefferson’s tree was the father of some (not all) of Heming’s children. For the record, to develop the DNA blueprint neither a direct T. Jefferson nor a direct S. Hemings descendant’s DNA was used
Randolph Jefferson was a well known swordsman and raconteur, screwing anything that would stand still long enough and is the most likely sperm donor. It’s a more compelling story if it was T. Jefferson but that doesn’t make it so. Could he be the baby daddy, absolutely. Was a 65 year old man likely to have fathered a child in the early 1800s (his age at the paternity of the youngest Heming child)? Probably not.
Fan boy? Absolutely, baby daddy our not, Thomas Jefferson is easily one of the most interesting men who ever lived. His contributions to the founding of America and the assurance that what he helped to found would last are tantamount to our successes as a nation. I’d already read the article you linked to, in fact, there isn’t much about Jefferson I haven’t read.
I often ask myself WWJD, what would Jefferson do.
I am a big Jefferson fan, however, based on my research of multiple sourcessources, it is very likely Jefferson was the father of Sally’s children. I am fine with that. It is also noteworthy that Jefferson was one point f the largest slave owners when he drafted Declaration Of Independence, yet he made an attempt to make all men equal. I think it was John Adams (your federalist) who disagreed? Jefferson made a large attempt at freeing slaves, but it fell on deaf ears.
People like to think we win our independence in a nice way. It was nothing but ugly and necessary. Every American played a role regardless of color or social status. We all wanted freedom. What many seem to forget is it was freedom from taxation and religion. Yep, I said it. Look at Jeffersons bible, read about our founding fathers, check out Thomas Paine Age Of Reason and look at SC’s own-MD Cooper. It was not pretty nor romantic, but necessary to gain freedom.
Of religion fear, of religion.
Not sure where you are going with this comment, however, it is my interpretation that freedom of religion is in fact freedom from religion. Let’s take a silly example, law requires everyone must eat yogurt daily. Some like blueberry, some banana, some strawberry and others don’t like yogurt at all. While they may argue and even kill each other due to this law and their desire to make their flavor most popular, those who don’t like yogurt are outcasts because they do not like yogurt or have a flavor preference. IF they changed the law to read “freedom of yogurt” would you still be required to eat yogurt or just flavor?
Interesting song in that regard: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MYSVMgRr6pw
Going first to edit: freedom of religion dear….
I can agree with that interpretation. Many want to use that freedom of religion clause as a debate to support their religious flavor.
Funny but true story. A family has a child and doesn’t want the baby to have all its shots at once, but spread them out so they are not so uncomfortable for the baby. Doctor refuses to cooperate. While an atheist, the only way around that debacle was to sign a form stating it was against their religious beliefs.
Kinda like Iraq, eh ?
BS the average South Carolinian was way better off in the 70s and 80s than they are today. I know. I grew up here. The hell hole I have watched my state descend into is directly attributable to the mismanagement of corrupt Republican politicians.
Sorry friend, I was born in Providence hospital 53 years ago – I tend to disagree and the facts support my contention. By the way we had Republican governors in both the 70s and 80s.
Ever notice how often Tom & Rocky compliment each other’s vacuous comments. Maybe we could get an Episcopal priest to marry them. I don’t mean perform a ceremony, I mean MARRY them. Both.
That’s kinda stupid, I respect the Colonel.
OH MY!!! A classic!!! +10
Now that is about as plain and straight as it gets.
It is admittedly difficult to determine a republican vs. Democrat in SC, particularly the low country, not so much upstate. Having said that, corruption on both sides. We “look” like a red state, but it is my opinion the lines are blurred due to an uneducated populace.
We’ve climbed out about 6 inches and only have another 25,000 feet left to go.
Ha! An honest reply. It still baffles me (a barely Yankee, now living in the south for a good while) why SC was the only southern state who was a federalist state. SC is rich in history, and while I do not agree with some of that, why, again why? Would SC favor big government? Oh but we fight against it now? Or do we? Look at core issues: Education, Right To Work, Incarnation rate, et al and ask yourself – is the south gonna rise again or more of the same – big government?
Dang auto correct *incarnation = incarceration.
I up voted,but- to,too,two.That one drives me nuts.
He said average South Carolinians were ignorant. I guess he was defining himself.
… as intended …
LOL … That “secret muslim socialists” bit … LOL. (Inbred obviously had something other than a union/g’ment education. ;-}
Not just cheap labor, but a political establishment bought on the cheap too. From what I’ve heard from Boeing officials, they seem to have less of a problem with the union than Haley does. Then again, they’re grown-ups who actually have to run a business and can’t get by just on pandering.
It amazes me to no end.
Your employer holds all the cards when it comes to negotiating your pay. Their job is to lowball you and keep your pay (their cost of business) as low as possible. They have an obligation to fuck you over, because less money for you means more money in their pocket. They aren’t your friend, guy.
The most the employee can do on their own is try to change one or two cards to even the playing field a bit, but doing so can get you shitcanned quick. Finding out how much your coworkers are making? You’re fired. Bring up the average pay for someone in your field? Here’s some bullshit reasons why that doesn’t matter, shut up or you’re fired. Come to the table with a competing offer? Take it then, you’re fired. Talk coworkers into collectively asking their manager for a raise? You’re fired and the coworkers are given the fear of god for even humoring you.
You get fired? They’ll have you replaced within the month. You, on the other hand, better find something quick before the bank forecloses on your ass.
But this “voluntary” structure is much, much preferable than the “tyranny” of labor laws protecting collective bargaining. We wouldn’t want the oligarchs to have to begrudgingly give up more of their wealth to the peasants than they already have to.
“But this “voluntary” structure is much, much preferable than the “tyranny” of labor laws protecting collective bargaining. ”
It is voluntary, no quotes needed. You can go get another job anytime you want if you don’t like the terms under which you’re employed.
This notion that gov’t is going to “protect” you is laughable(who controls gov’t?), even you should be able to see that.
You can go get another job anytime you want if you don’t like the terms under which you’re employed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXnifPfxK0Q
Gosh, it’s so easy, just get another job! Why hasn’t anyone thought of this before? That solves all of society’s problems right there. Clearly this will work out for everybody.
…and this is where accountability comes in…if you can’t find a job or another way to make money than that is a personal problem that you might be personally responsible for…but if you want to advocate for a corrupt gov’t(which is the nature of gov’t) to “help” you, well…good luck with that…because it’s not working so far.
if you can’t find a job or another way to make money than that is a personal problem that you might be personally responsible for…
“Well it should work, if it doesn’t, then it’s probably your fault anyways.”
Who cares about varying circumstances or practicality? Just set empathy to zero. Haven’t you heard? Ignorance is bliss!
“Just set empathy to zero.”
I have empathy, I’m just pointing out the obvious to you because you don’t seem stupid or incapable.
Are you having trouble finding a job?
I know gov’t isn’t the answer to the problems, you think it is…I’m not ready to call you stupid for that(yet) as I think you’re just irrationally optimistic and ignoring reality(for now).
But nowhere in the equation of Boeing negotiating with Union over wages does the government really come in to play. It’s not Nikki will be sitting at the table.
I understand that, but the Union and Boeing both use gov’t(at different levels) in different ways.
Boeing, sucking up taxpayer funds(EX-IM bank, etc.), Union using lower level state laws for forced membership, etc. et al…that the fight is just starting here and now is a different issue from the behavior of both of these organizations on the past(which we expect from them in the future).
The both are using gov’t at various levels to try to gain leverage.
Actually, from my view, the only one stirring the pot against the union, and putting up the biggest fight, isn’t Boeing – it’s Nikki and Gang.
Might be true…I don’t have insider info.
I’ve been told to shut up and set down in a union meeting because I wanted to end a strike and go back to work.
Well clearly, they collectively voiced against your idea.
Well clearly you’re wrong we did take a vote and went back to work once the vote was taken by ballot and not show of hands.
I was told to set down and shut up because I made a motion to take a ballot vote.
Oh, well then you did well to make your case. Being told to sit down isn’t too bad, I recall Joe Wilson calling someone a liar at a meeting of the big Government union. That speaker also won their elections.
I guess Joe could have called him a TRAITOR this year?
“I have to be honest with you, the more I hear from the administration and its quotes, the more it sounds like talking points that come straight out of Tehran,” Menendez charged at a Wednesday hearing.”
Please Flip, sit down. I know First Graders with better manners and focus than you.
Hitler would be proud !
So the system worked? Is that your complaint. Who cares what you were told. Big T tells people to shut up and sit down all the time.
We’re cheap and easy to push around. That’s what Haley was really saying about South Carolina.
Well she can speak for herself.
Can you define “dirt cheap labor”?
How about: When all “workers” are eating dirt, the cost of labor is cheap.
Look, every man is worthy of his pay … ALL who are smart hardworking should be paid handsomely and in direct proportion to their labors. (Just because you join a union does not automatically make you smart or hardworking.)
How dare those uppity workers try to level the playing field with their massers!
Meaning what? That you guys want to “level the playing field” with that of your own the union bosses?
I would defy you to find anyone telling you how to march or how to play except your own union bosses.
Drag it up, stupnigal … The unions only want your vote, skim your wages and promote disruption.
(I say this being a member of three unions: IBEW, Operating Engineers and SAG. … and I have not had to “pull rank and file” yet.)
Labor unions are far from perfect but when your selling your labor to a monopsony like Boeing you’re better off with a union than without.
Granted, it is good to have the whip hand in negotiations. “You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than you do with just a kind word.” [Al Capone]
Boeing is not a monopoly … yet.
MonopSony.
Yeah, next thing they’ll want paid vacation, sick leave and time-and-a-half over 40 hours. Not to mention dental plan, parking and, oh my God, profit sharing. No!!!!!!!!
With Obamacare they can’t even get 40 hours a week…29 hours ONLY!
Go sell that to the GM workers who are working overtime – idiot.
The mandate, which will be phased in through 2016, requires employers of 50 or more full-time workers to provide health coverage or pay fines. But it defines a full-time worker as someone who labors for 30 hours per week, giving companies a reason to trim some employees’ weekly hours to 29 or fewer, critics say, because owners previously considered them part-time workers who did not meet a 40-hour threshold for benefits.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/3/house-passes-bill-change-obamacare-workweek-hours/#ixzz3PZvOWQH0
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
Try and keep up “Tehran rOcky’!!!
What? You guys can’t find work anywhere else? What? You guys can’t ask for a raise? What? You guys can’t move to a non-right-to-work state?
One might note that everywhere the unions have successfully instituted anti-non-union policies, the costs of living have risen, the taxes have risen and g’ment productivity has declined AND relative wages have actually decreased … check it out, there are 50 states to chose from. Which ones are the most successful and have the best standards and least costs-of-living.
It is important, do the math, and any dumbed-down, common-core, union educated worker can figure it out.
Free markets obviously scare the living shit out of union members and supporters (and for good reason).
Yes … instead of a clear under standing of “free” and right-to-work, they only understand “Just Us”.
(‘Cause of that government/union “education”?)
I know workers there make over $20/hour.
*cue discussion by apologist trolls on the benefits of labor unions to their fellow comrades
As it stands, taxpayers subsidize a program that gives unfair advantage to big corporations competing for workers — and half of the workers end up being from out of state, anyway.
— says a Haley-apologist troll.
“Unions serve no purpose other than to artificially inflate wages (and taxpayer costs) so that dues can be paid to a corrupt cabal of leaders – who then use that money to elect liberal politicians who will perpetuate the cycle,” we wrote last year in assessing the latest data regarding unionization in America.
Read more at https://www.fitsnews.com/2015/01/22/boeing-sc-union-coming/#yUu7oYhZxWQmoAJl.99
Excellent FITS. When the Democrat Party turned toward socialism as a model of economics and marxism as a model of eliminating dissent and strong arming its members, the unions followed.
The unions of today are dangerous and job killers.
Yes, all the unions in SC are responsible for unemployment and some of the lowest wages in the country. Good analysis there, Flippy.
So the answer is to choose winners and losers in the marketplace, by giving tax breaks to companies like Boeing? That is not free-market capitalism. It is government intrusion into the marketplace.
Please define “the market place” for long haul commercial aircraft manufacture. I’ll help you start. Boeing, Airbus and ??????.
The marketplace also includes the labor market.
So workers in the “labor market” were restricted from moving to where the jobs are? Did Boeing offer transfers from WA to SC?
Large companies that create jobs for a community will not relocate without tax breaks and/or infrastructure incentives.
Just a fact. They hold all the cards.
Please explain how it is free market capitalism for government to use tax money to bribe corporations. Not asking what is or is not a fact. Do you stand on the side of free market capitalism, or on the side of government intrusion into the marketplace to control outcome and give unfair advantage to already over-privileged corporations? And how is that different than Obama bailing out the “too big to fail” corporations, or giving incentives to “green” enterprises?
A community either invests in jobs or it does not. No work, no community or services.
That is the definition of ‘free market capitalism’.
‘green enterprises’-different subject-global warming/climate change is a fraud and created by leftists to pursue wealth and to institute a marxist domain over world governments. It has also become a ‘religion’ to some.
“That is the definition of ‘free market capitalism’.”
lmao! No it’s not.
That sounds like Socialism. Are you a socialist?
“Not asking what is or is not a fact. Do you stand on the side of free market capitalism, or on the side of government intrusion into the marketplace”
I can answer that for him, he’s for gov’t intrusion.
Like 95% of GOPers, when they speak of “free markets”, they have no idea what it means and the few that do, really don’t want them.
The only difference between Dems and Repubs when it comes to “free markets” is where they want the intervention and who should benefit.
Both are central planners. There is no “free market” advocate anywhere in power.
Please explain how it is free market capitalism for government to use tax money to bribe corporations.
This is Flip we’re talking about. “Free market capitalism” is whatever Haley says it is, but only when Haley does it.
You’re making Flip’s job here harder mate.
So then – Government plays a vital role? I thought Government was evil? How do you reconcile that? And so obviously, we only fix roads if an out-of-state company is going to build a Wal Mart? Is that how it works in Crapville?
Democrats in government are evil.
So you agree that the hard working employees of government are not evil. That the EPA engineers and scientists are objective and hard working. Nice to hear your change of heart. Good on you sir.
No.EPA is stacked with Obama socialists and scientists were educated at state controlled universities by tenured, marxist professors.
You weren’t suprised when those scientists were caught falsifying global warming/climate change data , were you?
LMAO!!!
Flip, just regurgitates a few FoxNews talking points. Don’t expect him to actually be able to expound on or even explain what they mean or how they are relevant. He just knows to ones that connect emotionally with his bigoted old, shrinking mind.
Boz is making some good points today on this subject. Some I agree with, some I don’t.
If you have something to contribute that will further the discussion please feel free.
Fits, Question for you. How would a Union work in South Carolina? Even if they voted one in, in South Carolina you can not be forced into a Union and they can not force you to pay Union dues out of your check. So let’s say a majority vote for it at the plant, Great. Those people can join the Union and negotiate with management. The rest will most likely get the benefit but not pay the dues and then the Union collapses on itself. Am I missing something?
Guy shows up to work. “Dang, I ain’t joinin’ no union.” Five months later, out at a bar after work he turns to Doug. “Man, things are tight. This $12 an hour pay check is tough.” Doug says – “What? I’m pulling in $20 an hour. Don’t you belong to the union?” Guy says “No!” Doug says – “Ah, OK, that explains it.”
Guy asks, “How do I join?”
Wonder how long it will take for the Great Governor of South Carolina to embrace the Union movement in South Carolina
She has a track record of kicking former support groups in the nuts once she has milked them dry
Aligning with the Unions would certainly make Haley lead dog pulling the Republican Sled to the White House garage
Roll on Gypsy Queen Dooh Nibor, dammit, roll on !!
“She has a track record of kicking former support groups in the nuts once she has milked them dry”
The imagery here is so apropos for our slut governess. Once again Kudos to you.
I’m sure Will knows the feeling of being milked dry and then kicked in the nuts by her.
:)
Unions have destroyed MANY a US company…that said: When will FITS Unionize…LMAO…
If FITS Unionized, maybe that ignorant SC-Hating B@$t@rd would STFU….
LMAO!!! I am trying to ‘kill em with kindness today”….:-)
It ain’t working with these union MARXISTS!!!
Hey did you see (D) Senator Menendez from NJ called Obama a TRAITOR yesterday-said he was a proxy for Tehran by spewing their talking points?
I love it when the Democrats are beginning to turn on him…
That shows those media polls trying to save Obama are Bull-S#!t…These Democrats are scared to death of getting kicked out of office because Obama is such a F*#k up…in every way…
Get a room, you two!
Did Woody and Bo know you are a flaming liberal? :-)
Who the hell are Woody and Bo?
Woody Hayes and Bo Shempecker. Woody coached at Ohio State and Bo was an assistant until he moved to that ‘university up north’.
tomstickler says he knew em both.
Ohio State
Number of non-yankee South Carolina citizens who care about Ohio State: 0
Yep. I doubt we see Rocky today. Boehner’s brilliant move to invite Bibi and the Dems calling Obama a proxy for Tehran has sent him to the reality of ‘crapsville’. :-)
Obama does not have to get elected any more. So he does not care if he Nukes his party and its hopes for the future…
It’s ALL about Barry…always has been…That’s what happens when you elect a narcissist. And it could not happen to a more deserving bunch, either…
He has already NUKED it and why you are seeing these ‘funky’ approval polls (approval from 37%-47%).
Main stream socialist media is nervous as shit that he is taking Hillary down.
Please sir, the topic is unions. Cuddling with the killer of Jesus is another discussion.
LMAO!!! I can’t believe you threatened Bibi yesterday-warned him not to come to D.C.!!! Oh my!!!!
So that’s what killed the SCPSD? I just assumed it was shitty ramblings from the local lunatic.
Actually the ‘work’ on SCPSD was excellent.
“was”?
“was” means GT says he has other projects going on.
SCPSD is alive and well…Dumb@$$…
Then why aren’t you there working on it?
Because I’m on here working on it…owning your mind is part of it…
You’re here, working on your blog over there? In what sense? Do you think you’re pulling potential visitors to your site by your insightful commentary?
Or by creating an alter-ego named Flip and talking to yourself, because no one else will.
I actually think GT and “Flip/Guest/etc.” are two separate people. Flip is the smarter, slightly more articulate of the two.
He’s made it his mission to try to protect GT from himself.
On one hand, I somewhat understand as beating on GT verbally is like trashing a retard…but most retards don’t go around provoking people either, so there’s that for Flip/Sandi/Guest to consider.
GrandTango tried to unionized but his mom said it’s not up to her what the welfare office sends him.
There was a time when Unions were not only useful, but necessary. That time has passed and now they are just another parasite in the conga line of corporations and government lined up to screw workers raw.
Excellent point. Actually you could define the Democrat Party the same way-used to be useful and necessary however the time has passed.
BRAVO to both posts…
That time has passed
Huge multinational corporations that make billions upon billions pay their employees so little that they qualify for welfare. Dat gubmint subsidized work force.
Yeah, who needs unions anyways?
How do you know? Ever worked the same job for both a union and a non-union company?
Everyone who trashes the union oughta be in one for a while. I know a guy who moved down from Pennsylvania who was all fired up about how useless his union was up there. Six months later he was singing a different tune about how sloppy the workers were in S.C.,how ridiculously large his workload was, and how management refused to listen to any of his feedback.
I know someone who retired from the Teamsters at 55 and is a stay-at-home Dad – loving it. Get’s $65K a year for just waking up. Anyone in SC getting that gig?
Those private sector pensions BROKE those corporations and why the car industry needed a government bail-out.
The public sector unions BROKE many municipalities.
You failed math, correct?
And now Dad”s kid is going to wonder why Dad’s old job is in Mexico. Thanks Dad.
No, during my careers in two vastly different industries the Union Companies went under so that wasn’t possible.
;-)
The automobile and steel industries are still here and they are heavily unionized. The Textile industry, which had virtually no unions, was outsourced a decade ago.
Without unions to protect them, the employees of the textile industry were helpless when the owners started shipping their jobs to slave wage countries. At least with a union they could have tried to fight back. It may have only delayed the inevitable, but who knows. We may still have sheet and pillow case manufacturers in the US.
Haley should have added: “Boeing cares about one thing and one thing only – its own profits.”
The Democrats care about one and one thing only – TAKING your profit…
At least Boeing PRODUCES a profit…and renders PAYCHECKS from their profits…Obama does not produce one MoFo thing, except a tax bill, hardship and red tape…
kind of like you..you dont produce one thing of value..not one.
Vapid Copier much?
At least this time, it’s a story ABOUT something. No “The Donald” or “T-Rav” or other examples of bullshit artists pretending to run for office.
Good point…Unions are a bigger danger than no-chance candidates…
Only thing: Anti-South Carolinian FITS is still in bed with the Scum-bag Unions…just like he is w/ the worthless politicians…
Holy shit! You and Flippy both telling me I’m making good points today.
Where did I go wrong?
This is a good time for some self examination my friend, LOL.
Employees work their asses off providing their talents to earn the company billions? Well that’s the way it should work.
Employees demand more than breadcrumbs from the very business they made successful and competitive in the first place? CLASS WARFARE! CLASS WARFARE!
Having been a union member and even a steward (URW Local 310), I can tell you government politicians can’t hold a candle to the corruption of union politics. I know of a union politician that was more anti-company than you can imagine until he became a company supervisor and was the biggest prick the company had.
That is how management handles arrogant union stewards. Promote them so they are now “on your side”. Money talks.
I know and have seen it more than once.
At that same company in a company meeting I asked the plant manage how much I would make for 8 hours of piece work production under the new pay plan. He spoke to a couple of his superordinate seated at the table and then said he didn’t have the answer for that question. I responded to him, “It’s no wonder this company is going broke and being bought out by the Japanese”.
He looked me up after the meeting and said they didn’t understand the question, I told his that was strange because every union member in the meeting understood it.
My point is there is good and bad on both sides and I found I could negotiate for myself better than the union could.
Yeh, but have you done the same work for a non-union outfit in South Carolina? If so, I’d like to hear about your experience. There is no perfect job, especially in the blue collar world. My own experience was that working in the union was much fairer than working without a union. Seriously, if you have experience with both, I’d like to hear about your pay difference, sick leave, overtime pay, etc.
My experience was I didn’t want a union telling me how much money I could make. If I could produce 50 more pieces of product than the man next to me why should I be told to slow down because you’re making the man next to you look bad. Nothing in this world is equal and trying to make it so only makes it more unequal.
In my 15 years as a union member I lost 1 year worth of wages due to strikes.
According to what I’m reading, your not supposed to enjoy the fruits of your hard work or good skills at promoting your worth to your employer. That what burns my ass about Unions, the performers are supposed to support all the dead weight lazy asses that are literally killing the company that pays you. You aren’t allowed to have a bottom line. BTW, have you ever seen a Union Boss that wasn’t obese and swearing he was busting his tail for you? These lemmings are posting on here with the ass umption that no one else has ever dealt with a Union before so they go full tilt blowing sunshine up skirts.
From what I am reading you think that Business Owners should be allowed to unilaterally decide what a persons hard work and good skills are worth. They should have no say in that process and no right to get together with other people who have good skills and work hard to market those skills and labor and maximize the profit on the product they each have to sell. Simply because that does not benefit you.
Thats what burns my ass about a lot of business owners. They think there should be no difference between a guy working on their production line and the dog who guards the gate at night. I mean have you ever seen a factory owner who gave a crap about the people who work for him. These lemmings are posting here with the ass umptions that no one else has ever dealt with or worked in both a union and non-union facility before or been involved in union negotiations from both sides. So they go full tilt making up crap to cover up the fact, that they just think the law should not allow workers to get together and ask for higher wages.
I going to leave it at this. You must be one sorry assed worker that business owners can treat you like a dog. My present company treats me OK to good, who is to say there is no room for improvement always? I’m contacted on a fairly regular basis by former co-workers and former employers of jobs I’ve been on in the past with offers, not as frequently as it has been in the past because many of my peers recognize I’m happy at where I’m at. Your starting to make me feel sorry for you that feel trapped. I work where I am because they want my services and I like working for them. It didn’t require a third opinion for my company and I to figure that out. Perhaps anyone making less than six figures should be viewed as handicapped and made wards of the State, with Union representation, bless their broke ass hearts.
Some of what I post is hyperbole, in response to yours. I don’t feel trapped. I haven’t worked for anyone except myself for 15 years. I own my own business. But as I discussed in another post. I am the son of a manager in a paper plant and the grandson of a cotton mill foreman. I worked summer jobs in both in highschool and college. I never had to worry about being treated like a dog. I was the boss man’s son. But, I can tell you that in most instances people working for a unionized plant have it far better than people who don’t. That is what people opposed to unions coming to SC are afraid other workers will find out.
It’s obvious some of these pro-union comments are coming from commenters that have never paid union dues in their life.
If I pay you to come beautify my landscape, that doesn’t allow you to have the deed to my house or camp in front yard. The thing your neglecting to mention is whose venture capital (and in many cases, hard work) provided the opportunity to work in the first place?
Smirks will never understand your point. Will defined him as a ‘socialist’.
If I pay you to come beautify my landscape, that doesn’t allow you to have the deed to my house or camp in front yard.
I didn’t ask for the deed to your house.
There’s a use for hyperbole but you’re doing it wrong.
If the state passed a law saying what you could or could not put into contracts with other companies to maximize your profits on the sale of a product you would be pissed. Who are they to tell you who you can and cannot enter into agreements with? Yet, you oppose employees, who are also selling a product, labor, getting together with other people and offering their product as a group, on group terms; and deciding who can or cannot be in the group.
Production of a physical product requires three things capital, material and labor. Without any of the three no one makes money.
Correct. The free market is supposed to benefit on business. Employees are like machines. They are supposed to be disposable. They should have no right to negotiate with the business other than on a one on one basis. It should be illegal for employees to contract to work together to maximize their profit.
excuse me. only business.
If YOU feel YOU need someone to speak for your employment, by all means PAY someone to do so. Let’s just not force others to do it also against their CHOICE. You do believe in freedom of choice don’t you?
Yes, YOU have should have the freedom to choose whether to sign the contract with the union or not. The union members should have the freedom to put into the contract whatever they want. If the union members says we only want union workers in the plant, and you say OK but I want a concession for that, and you reach an agreement that should be legal. That is the free market.
Under your theory someone buying a product from you should not be allowed to offer to make you the exclusive provider of that product in exchange for price and terms acceptable to them.
Yeah, unions need to clean up their PR image, but VA hospitals needed to reform and they did. Unions can, too. Remember: It was unionization that built the middle class in this country. Unions and the Dems who created a minimum wage, Social Security, the 40-hour work week, employee-contributed health insurance and much more.
Sure, Nikki wants cheap labor, just as she wants tax cuts for the rich if she has to raise gas taxes. Has Nikki ever been to a union meeting? A soup kitchen? Ever been inside a poor person’s home? Sat through a poor school lesson where the kids read through thumbed and torn books handed down from wealthier schools? Just asking.
Dan, I am crying. Please stop.
Tell Dan to try some lube next time..you probably dont have this issue with grand asshat..he seems….small.. in many ways.
Mullah Obama got you down today? Barry Tehran working for Iran.
Who would have thunk-until the DEMOCRATS finally had enough!!!
Sir, we are discussing unions and Boeing. Thank you for your comments, however, we ask you please keep them associated with the topic at hand. We can discuss the Establishment’s dropping their big “abortion” bill later.
LMAO!!!!You are late to the game today!!!
The PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY WHO WORK built the middle class, you ignorant F*#king Liberal…
Americans BUILT IT…not you, Obama, the government, or some Fat Slob Town-Car Driving Union Mob Boss, sitting on his lazy @$$, collecting Dues to put corrupt Democrats in office….
Get that straight you misguided Dumb@$$….
You dumb fuck, before unions and labor laws, the vast majority of industrial workers toiled in unsafe, unsanitary conditions for long hours at great risk to life and limb. They were paid starvation wages, while virtual all the benefit from their work accumulated into the hands of few oligarchs. Get clue you dumb shit!!
Ancient history much?
Yeah, it is ancient history because greed is a thing of the past. That history is already repeating itself and has been for decades, incrementally perhaps, but still happening. Now that ‘money’ is ‘speech’ expect it to speed up.
Greed…you mean like this: from the New York Times, 3 days ago….
Union Leader Convicted in Philadelphia
A former union (Boss) was found guilty on Tuesday of extortion, racketeering and conspiracy for overseeing a campaign of violence and vandalism intended to force nonunion contractors to hire union members.
After deliberating for four days, a jury convicted Joseph Dougherty, a former business manager of Local 401 of the International Association of Bridge, Structural, Ornamental and Reinforcing Iron Workers, on all six counts against him after a six-day trial in Federal District Court here.
Mr. Dougherty, 73, led a union that committed 25 acts such as arson, destruction of property and attacks on workers for nonunion contractors at construction sites in the Philadelphia area from 2008 to 2013, prosecutors said. He faces at least 15 years in prison when he is sentenced on April 29.Continue reading the main story Related Coverage
Ex-Leader’s Trial Details Union CoercionJAN. 10, 2015
Mr. Dougherty was the only one of 12 union members to fight the charges brought by a federal grand jury. Seven other defendants made plea deals with prosecutors and testified against their former boss in return for a reduction in prison sentences.Photo
Joseph Dougherty led an ironworkers’ local accused of vandalizing nonunion sites. Credit Jonathan Wilson/The Philadelphia Inquirer, via Associated Press
Federal District Judge Michael M. Baylson ordered Mr. Dougherty immediately detained because of the seriousness of his crimes, but the judge said he would hold a hearing to determine whether Mr. Dougherty’s poor health warranted releasing him temporarily before sentencing.
“I can’t have this jury come back with this verdict and allow him to go home today,” the judge said.
Fortunato Perri, Mr. Dougherty’s lawyer, said after the verdict that he knew the trial would be an “uphill battle” because all 11 co-defendants entered plea agreements or were granted immunity from prosecution by the government in return for their cooperation.
Robert P. Livermore, an assistant United States attorney, praised the jury for its diligence.
“There was a lot of evidence, and I suspect that they just wanted to take their time and go through and make sure they made the right decision,” Mr. Livermore said.
Prosecutors said the local formed picket lines at nonunion construction sites where union members would sometimes assault workers and their vehicles with baseball bats.
At some nonunion sites, union members would conduct nighttime raids in which they would bend anchor bolts, cut structural steel with acetylene torches and set fire to contractors’ equipment like cranes, according to an indictment describing 25 such incidents from 2008 to 2013.
Mr. Perri argued that the raids had been organized not by his client, but by some of his subordinates, or “business agents,” who were among the defendants.
Robert Reeves, president of E. Allen Reeves Inc., a construction management company based in the Philadelphia suburbs, said the ironworkers’ local and other unions have caused problems for his company throughout his 40-year career in the construction industry.
Mr. Reeves runs an “open shop” company that uses mostly nonunion workers but is also open to hiring union members, he said in an interview.
Mr. Reeves, whose company’s work at a new Quaker meetinghouse in Philadelphia was vandalized by members of the ironworkers’ union in December 2012, said the union’s efforts to obtain jobs for its members increased construction costs by as much as 30 percent and prevented his company from winning some contracts because owners were afraid of being attacked if they used nonunion labor.
“Everybody knows that Philadelphia has a violent, strongman reputation,” he said.
At various times before the meetinghouse attack, Mr. Reeves said his projects had been smeared with tar, his tires had been stuck with knives and he had been shot at, in attacks by the ironworkers and, he believed, members of two other unions.
Some business leaders accused Philadelphia politicians of avoiding public criticism of violent union tactics.
Daniel M. DiLella, the president of Equus Capital Partners, a Philadelphia-based real estate investment company, said local political leaders have avoided commenting on union intimidation during the trial of Mr. Dougherty.
minimum wage, Social Security, the 40-hour work week, employee-contributed health insurance and much more.
B-but, soshulizum.
Obama eliminated the 40 hour work week. It is now 29 hours until Republicans change it back.
Next time you wanna talk about how backwards SC is,and wonder why,read your blog,Will.
LMAO!!!! Typical liberal/socialist Democrat. You call the voters dumb and wonder why they won’t vote for your candidates.
Why are you here if everybody is stupid and dumb on this blog?
Stupid guys are easy.You want some?
if the union is propagandizing via red shirts inside the plant, it sounds as though company issued, mandatory uniforms would be a worthwhile investment for Boeing to make.
Make the ‘red shirts’ wear ”rainbow shirts’.That should solve the problem.
You can wear whatever you want on Friday. However Folks is embellishing a little bit here claiming that it’s becoming more common at the plant to wear those red shirts. It’s not. A person here and there probably has it and I even tried to play this game of “Find the Red Shirt” aka “Find Waldo” and I’ve seen more Gamecocks clothing than “I want the IAM” shirts.
I wish people who trashed unions had some actual experience doing blue collar work. After college, I moved up to New York City and had a union job for a while. Then I moved back to South Carolina and did blue-collar work without a union. Wow! It was a night and day experience. Neither job was wonderful (which is why I went to grad school), but the union job at least gave me a decent pension and some basic rights that couldn’t be taken away at a boss’s whim. The job in S.C. was ridiculous. My schedule was changed constantly and often at the last minute. I worked 50 to 60 hours a week because I was exempt from regular overtime and received “Chinese” overtime instead, which was less than minimum wage.
Again, it’s easy to trash unions when you sit behind a desk and never have had a tough, blue collar job before.
Ole Jimmy Hoffa took real good care of the Teamster pension fund. Mafia run LV casinos had it made.
They gave a good ROI for a while though!
I’ve belong to three different unions and can tell you there are good and bad on both sides of the fence. I didn’t have to join the unions because it was right to work state but I did. Like I said before government politicians can’t hold a candle to the corruption in union politics.
BTW even as a union member if the company scheduled work on Saturday I had to work, come to think of it I never had a job that was a 40 hour work week, it was always more.
“That’s a reference to the union’s bright red “I Want The IAM” T-shirts – which have been seen in increasing numbers inside Boeing’s North Charleston plant.” Really? That’s like playing Find Waldo at the plant on Friday.
Even Ronald Reagan said that collective bargaining was a basic right in a free society.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn28oayX31Y
Of course, Ronald Reagan would be RINO in todays nutcase extremist GOP.
There’s no reason on earth why a group of workers shouldn’t be allowed to collectively negotiate their wages with their employer. That’s what freedom is. If the employer doesn’t like the contract, then don’t sign it.
Federal employee unions are restricted by law from negotiating wages for their members. So your one size fits all doesn’t apply.
There is on major difference though, people get to choose what product/service they get from a “free market”(or close) company, which helps to determine wage pricing.
No one gets that choice with a gov’t “product/service”, so there’s no wage price discovery to start…without restrictions the only potential restriction on wages would be based on how much gov’t takes from people before revolt…
Gov’t workers are living off of confiscated wealth, so naturally when markets aren’t in play if there wasn’t an artificial constraint of some sort there already very high compensation compared to the median might even be higher.
Obviously you are totally unfamiliar with the methods by which wages are set for federal government workers. They are based on the prevailing rates of non-government workers in the area.
“They are based on the prevailing rates of non-government workers in the area.”
Really? So what’s the prevailing rate for private water treatment? Or private mass road construction? Etc., et al…you get my point?
Calling air traffic controllers!!!
OK, let me get this straight. SC has some of the lowest wages in the nation. Ranks what – like 46? And a higher tax burden than more wealthy states like Florida. GT and Flippy are always bemoaning wages are down. So along comes a union that wants to fight for higher wages, which everyone says they want, and the governor’s response is “Hell No!” as if she’s really got any power over it. Crapville logic – you gotta love it.
South Carolina has a whole yes but Charleston has higher rankings and is even the #1 tourist location in the United States. You’re talking about wages on average in the State but Boeing actually pays more than the state average. The starting pay is about $13 an hour for a Grade A Assembler/Machinist.
While strolling along the backstreets south of Broad, one may think – wow – we are the number one tourist attraction. However, sir, I also have been to city called Orlando. And to that city, we do not hold a flame. Nor do we compete with such locations as Time Square / NYC, Washington DC or my favorite city in America (well two) – San Dieigo and Miami.
However, I am proud of the fact that the symbol of Charleston is a palm tree and a cresent moon. I figure at some point that will piss of Flippy – and that’s always a plus.
There are certain measurements when it comes to calculating that especially since Charleston is a a port of entry for cruise ships. The city gets busy when those cruise ships comes in. Also they calculate these factors on air travel visits by capita.
This was also addressed in the Post and Courier as well.
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20141020/PC05/141029970
Orlando is merely a pimp for Disney. Talk about a rip-off of tourists. Miami? Gang haven.
Wow, I was making $7 hour as summer help in a unionized plant in SC in 1980. That should tell you what has happened to the middle class. Workers in SC are paid crap.
I’m trying to understand your point here? The same pay is given in Washington State under the unionized plants. You ever read the IAM 751 contract? http://www.iam751.org/pages/IAM_751_Contract_eff_010314.pdf Page 20. Starting pay for a Labor Grade 1 minimum? $12 an hour.
My point in on an inflation adjusted bases a worker today would have to make $20.00 an hour to make what I was making as a summer worker in 1980. That is a 35% pay cut. That is what has happened to the middle class in SC.
I got that. But as you seemed to have missed my point, the rest of the country especially Boeing Puget Sound is paid equally similar to Boeing South Carolina. It’s not just a South Carolina thing. You’re talking about the workforce in general, I’m talking about Boeing in specific.
What Haley should really address is her and Boeing’s pledge to bring “high-paying” jobs to South Carolina. I bet some people expected Boeing would pay more than average wages. Wrong. Average starting pay is $13, which isn’t much in the Charleston area. When you subtract the subsidies Boeing received from their labor expenses, they are making a killing in S.C. The workers however…. no so much.
Artificially inflate wages? Compared to… artificially inflated corporate profits and management bonuses? Really???
Oh, and if you are against collective bargaining, then you are ANTI-FREE MARKET. You know, the right to negotiate wages and enter into agreements? Like how businesses conduct themselves in every other facet of their operations….
You bitch and moan about wages not raising fast enough in the economy and then you blame unions for increasing their member’s wages
Fuck off with that bullshit
The unions are going to make a run at Boeing every year about spring time … forever.
I knew the $ 8.75 per hour gig would not work. Anything over $ 10.00 is high dollar pay in SC. Politicians who don’t even work make $ 125,000 a year. Have a great day !
Starting pay for a machinist/assembler A at BSC is $13 an hour. Where are you getting $8.75? A janitorial job?
You know who’s business this is?
The workers at the Boeing plant, and no one else>
I suppose NIMRATA can send in the National Guard.
And, of course, the president’s unilateral changes in the NLRB’s rules for union elections will not affect Boeing, at all.
One employee-one vote! Majority rule.
I suppose that is over your head
One employee-one Secret Vote! Majority rule.
Is that over your head?
The actual VOTE is a secret ballot!
Is that 0VER YOUR head!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe. Maybe the union votes in SC are secret. But SC is a right-to-work state and the unions are too often caught monkeying with their own internal members’ votes.
I’m betting that a union member vote to stop spending the dues on political manipulations would not be kept secret for long.
The only reason people work for other people is because the owner hasn’t found a way to produce her product with an affordable machine. All other reasons are ancillary or irrelevant.
The only reason business owners and their paid for Governor Lacky care if the Union comes to Boeing is they are afraid others will see the Unions make life and pay better for workers. If they were not afraid of that; they would welcome the Union to Boeing. It would be a lesson in failure for the employees to see. But they are afraid that will not be the case and other workers will ask; It worked for them, why not us?.
Failure does not spread. Success does. The business owners do not want to take the chance.
The last time the unions, any of them, made “life and pay better for workers” was during the Whiskey Rebellion, when farmers and transportation workers banded together to fight the greedy taxsuckers in Washington. They won that one, barely and it wasn’t until a “libertarian” leaning president came along that their quest for “just us” was won … Thanks, Tom.
You are barking up the wrong tree, with me. I am well aware of how this works. I am the son of a mid-level manager in a unionize paper plant, and the grandson of a cotton mill foreman. When I was in high school and college I worked summer jobs in both. There was absolutely no comparison. The physical nature of the work was comparable, I was loading products onto a pallet for shipment. But I made $3 an hour more in the union facility than I did in the non-union Cotton mill. I was making almost as much as summer help, as people in the cotton mill who had been working full time for 10 years. In addition, the union facility was far more concerned with worker safety. The union did in fact make my life better. I made enough working a summer job to for my rent and spending money in college for most of the rest of the year.
And before you go there. The paper plant is still there. The cotton mill is not.
“… The union did in fact make my life better. I made enough working a summer job to for my rent and spending money in college for most of the rest of the year. …”
Good for you. Good for the paper mill. Good for the cotton mill?
That was then, this is now. … I won’t quibble about union jobs paying more … I’ve done enough union gigs to know how that all works. (In the 1980’s one took home more by working union jobs 9 months and collecting 3 months “unemployment”.)
Do you still have a union job?
UHH – RAA, thanks for the comment.
Everything in SC is to catapult Nikki to president. The stupid, the better.
The treatment of workers by employers determines weather or not a union is needed. I have been on both sides of this issue. If a union can be avoided it is in the best interest of both parties. The union is just another set of bosses to the workers, and another obstacle to the company. Both are best avoided. Not to mention the work rules and crapola.
I could care less about unions IF they did no affect me. They do, unions typically want bigger government to protect “their” interests. SC Teachers association, great example, while not a union, a powerful lobbying group. When people do their jobs, with the exception of hazardous work conditions, why are unions necessary? I “think” unions were/are the result of an oil guru (JD Rockefeller) who abused his power/position for VERY selfish reasons. I understand at the core we are all selfish, but he exploited that to a degree people died. Laws were put in place to protect the people from people like him, and themselves. It could be argued the people should have stuck together and refused to cooperate, but how many have the courage?