Mande: Myth-Busting On Teacher Pay
“BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE HAVE IT WRONG” By MANDE WILKES || Let’s just jump rYou must Subscribe or log in to read the rest of this content.
“BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE HAVE IT WRONG” By MANDE WILKES || Let’s just jump rYou must Subscribe or log in to read the rest of this content.
77 comments
While I totally garee, what you’ll find…Liberals DO NOT CARE about reality.
You think you’ve stumbled upon some profound truth. But Conservatives have known this for years. We also know there will be a line of leftwing dolts too stupid to digest this, or too corrupt to admit it. Either way, the fools in this country control the media. It’s why I berate FITS so much. He had a chance to be different, but chose to compromise himself, to be like the rest because it was the easiest path to success.
Again: you are right. But the stupid middle, who can shake the power base – the Liberal-Tarins – too often side with the liars and greedy manipulators.
Abso-tive-ly … except for that rip on FITS.
right on bro! fuckin reality all over the damn place and those libruls can’t see it. what is up wit dem??
Mande, at the risk of angering some of my many teacher friends: Any time you are in the zone of both the left and right being full of shit on a given issue, I’m right there with you. Got your back. But still, always … Thinking about your front.
Perv alert.
Is he in “denial” after playing dress up in women’s attire?
If anyone would know, it would be you.
Basement dweller alert.
Funny how he never gets voted up by anyone other that “Guests.” Half of whom are bound to be him.
You and Buz would make a nice couple. Come on Buz put on your best dress and those high heels and you and Smirks make it legal!
The three biggest reasons to be a teacher: June, July, August.
Not a bad gig, just wasn’t for me.
Also, if you keep your nose clean, you may one day be an administrator, making a lot more. You’ll have your own little dictatorship.
Exactly.Watched Tillis-Hagan debate in NC and even though the Tillis led House gave teachers a 7% raise with another one coming next year, Hagan called this a pay cut.
What a joke. You guy think people are stupid. What happened is Tillis and McCrory cut $500 million dollars from North Carolina’s enviable public school system. To make up for the cuts the schools had to increase class sizes, eliminate text books in some classes and cut teacher pay. When teachers began to leave the state in droves, Tillis and McCrory passed a raise for approximately 2% of teachers.
Now, NC has a national reputation for crappy public education. Thanks to Tillis and McCrory.
Not surprising. Tillis and McCrory are Koch Brother puppets. While I don’t live in NC, I live on the border and I am forced to listen to those ads put up by Crossroads (i.e. the Koch Brothers).
Public education in this nation is under attack by groups like the Koch Brother and Howard Rich. They believe if they make schools bad enough the public will abandon them.
McCrory and Tillis cut taxes on wealthy people and businesses in NC an paid for it by increasing sales taxes on the middle class and cutting funding to public education.
Bye bye Hagan!
Makes no difference to me. If the people of NC are stupid enough to elect Tom Tillis, that is their call, not mine. I don’t live in NC. I live in SC, we have had to suffer under Republican rule for two decades. If they want to take a state with NCs reputation and turn it into a state with SC’s reputation, by all means follow our lead and go GOP.
Hey, NC, it won’t be so bad. We have learned how to deal with our reputation., and we can teach you. Repeat after me, “Thank God for Mississippi.”
Yeh but how much are Rich people paying in taxes?
That’s the only issue among Republicans.Its drives them insane thinking about how much taxes wealthy people pay.
BINGO! Not only the summer break, but every weekend, every night, every Spring Break, every Christmas, every Thanksgiving, etc. No on-call time, no major project management, little or no supervision of subordinate employees. You can also pick up an exceedingly easy to obtain masters degree in education (or even a masters+30) and jack the pay up into the low-50’s in most decent sized districts. For the level of intellectual heavy lifting involved and the schedule, $55k a year starts to seem more fair.
One might get real political about teachers’ pay. If teachers (unions) successfully institute complete control over their own compensation with nothing but g’ment involved, then that would be a type of socialism. … And then teachers would not be paid as much, the baseline being the guide, not the median. … And all teachers would have to sign up for ObamaCare instead of the more gold plated programs some have now. … And suffer under some of the more egregious tax laws … and not be allowed (by g’ment) to take advantage of many of the “special” programs and tax breaks and perks currently in place for teachers.
IMOP that politically driven hope and change would be a serious net negative for all teachers … at the behest of a few.
There is no collective bargaining for state employees in SC. Therefore your point about teacher unions doesn’t apply here.
You have been warned. Facts are not welcome at Fitsnews.
You shall now be put on double-secret probation…
They know that. Its just red meat for brain dead Tea Nuts who have been convinced by lying politicians that unions are the reason they are not millionaires.
You must mean the Tea Nuts who were educated in the state controlled education monopoly. … They will believe anything they see on TV.
Teachers unions exercise influence in ways other than collective bargaining.
Bingo again! You’re like butter today.
The simple act of collective voting is a huge hammer.
Most occupations vote one party or the other. If the “teacher voting block” had any power in SC, Haley wouldn’t be in office.
Mande is a Republican.
It’s mandatory among Republicans to throw a little Union bashing into any discussion where it may be even tangentially related.
Not sure about you Mande, but I would have trouble living on $45K per year. And since I do construction at schools and witness the environment they deal with, $45K is low pay for sure. Now, does that mean that teachers aren’t wrong on many things? no it doesn’t. Our public education system needs reorganizing. We need fresh ideas. The issues are vast. We waste a ton of money in our school system. We just hired a trainee here this year and started him at $45K. He is no experience in our industry. Of course, he will never make $100K at the job either. Teachers can make more money doing other jobs. But we can’t do without teachers.
Liberalism is THE No. 1 problem in education. It ain’t complicated.
The only FRESH IDEA we need is to jettison ALL, and EVERY liberal from the education industry trough. End of story.
still angry today Emily? Did Obama make you stub your toe again? ..its the dam ugly little dog im tellin ya..You look like you dont date much but perhaps a night out would help you..i would drop the d bag hat though and the ugly little dog.
That’s NOT Emily Peterkin. But he uses a FAKE Emily Peterkin Facebook account to post here and there.
I would have trouble living on $45K per year too. That’s why I don’t teach. It’s not like teacher salary is a closely guarded secret that is only revealed once you’ve signed an employment contract.
If your pay sucks — ask for a raise. If your employer says no, find another job that pays better. If you can’t find another job for more pay, expand your skill set. Make yourself more valuable.
Or move! I negotiated a 50% pay increase the last time I switched jobs, but it required selling our home and moving my family 1,200 miles away. Best decision I ever made.
The lack of discipline and low expectation fairly shouts from the chalk board in that picture.
Sloppy work – no pride in his presentation. What an example to make for chemistry students!
I like this comment.
+1
It’s also why I force my kid(s) to write shit out all the time….there’s lots going in on the mental process of writing(and especially calligraphy!) itself.
Also, let’s face it, what made Apple a superior product for a time to MS was the fact that Jobs studied and revered calligraphy.
skaters can make a perfect circle in the ice… how many school kids can draw a circle freehand?
I believe your argument looks good on paper. However, I am unsure if your breakdown is completely accurate. My husband has a masters degree and is a history teacher and year round coach at a SC High School. He makes around 50k a year. However, that includes being on a master degree pay scale, a coaches stipends, and endless hours of homebound pay (he teaches homebound students on the side, to make extra money). He leaves the house at 6:30 every morning and isn’t home before 7:30 every night. And, he works four days a week (albeit, not full days) during the summer. My point is this….with the hours he actually works (not counting grading papers at home)…his pay does seem meager and he is one of the many that supplements his salary with stipends and homebound pay. And, about 80% of his colleagues at his school have at least a masters degree. And, his wife has a law degree. Just saying…
And? Most professional people get home late and work at home too. Why do teachers act like they’re the only people bringing work home with them?
The point was that his hourly wage isn’t $25/hr. He never complains about his income, because he loves his job. I wasn’t being argumentative, I was questioning accuracy and context.
Accuracy is not a Fits News strong point. Never let the facts get in the way of your point. If you don’t have the facts make them up
And most professional people, lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, get paid a lot more.
Doctors maybe. Lawyers, pharmacists? Don’t make me laugh.
Median salary for lawyers in Columbia SC. $76,952
Median salary for pharmacists in Columbia, SC $114,039
Info is from Salary.com You can stop laughing now.
(guy who has no idea how many hours lawyers/pharmacists work, forgets they also don’t get 3 months off a year)
That’s all you could come up with?
It looks like you may have pulled extreme examples from each category that you cited. However, I agree overall mainly because nothing has changed drastically in the teacher profession in many, many years so all of those teachers who moan and groan KNEW WHAT THEY WERE GETTING INTO. So, are they ignorant or did they weigh the pros and cons before joining the field.? I suspect the latter.
Tremendous
Public education?
right! we need to cut teacher pay. basic economic theory tells us if we pay less, we’ll get more people fighting for these plum jobs. hell why not make it volunteer work? like the way the peace corps made the world peaceful and the jesuits made everyone catholic. you are a goddam genius.
Average Salary: $47,050
http://www.teacherportal.com/salary/South-Carolina-teacher-salary
You all did notice Mande used median (the one that occurs most often) salary, not average. This is done all the time so the reporting can fit the intended point. Average can ruin the intended point either way. For this article, I want median. I don’t want those getting higher pay to skew the point.
The average S.C. teacher was paid $48,375 at the end of the 2013 school year, while the national average was $55,418, according to the state Department of Education.
http://www.thestate.com/2014/01/07/3194964/sheheen-increase-sc-teacher-pay.html#storylink=cpy
$45k in SC is equivalent to $56k in Philadelphia, $101k in Manhatten, $70k in Queens, $74k in San Francisco. So seems like SC salaries are right in line with the national average.
Jackie is right, the cost of living here in SC is low compared to most other states.
Mande:
Where did you get your figure for comparing pay to military soldiers? Maybe a basic training recruit makes less than a teacher. But you must include several other factors. First, lower enlisted advance up several places in less than three years. Second, basic allowance for housing (BAH) is fairly significant–and its not taxed. Third, enlisted soldiers receive basic allowance for sustenance (BAS) at roughly $250/mo–and its not taxed. There are many additional factors. But the bottom line is, when you broadly says “soldiers” make less than this, you are really only talking about a few lower enlisted soldiers. And they were quickly progress beyond that. I would refer you to a basic pay chart, as well as the BAH/BAS figures.
Otherwise, good analysis.
As with all issues in education – money is not the issue. Teachers are generally fairly compensated for their efforts. Their workday is commensurate with their salary and in 80% of the classrooms, there is no real threat or risk – except for that sickly kid who refuses to cough into his damn elbow.
There should be some “combat pay” differential for high school level teachers and those who deal with the “sweathogs”.
There is always shenanigans going on at the district office trying to get cheaper teachers in the classroom usually at the expense of the “most talented but most likely to complain” teachers.
Two parents were teachers, I spend much of my week dealing with generally high performing high school students. The teachers I deal with love to teach but hate the administrivia and bovine excreta that comes with the job.
Looks like we lead the world in spending, yet far from the top in results. From a Lefty place, kind of shocked.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/oecd-education-report_n_3496875.html
I don’t consider myself an expert, but right off the get go I would look at administrative costs. And sadly, I think a big factor is culture, smart people just aren’t valued in our society.
Why do you use a picture of yourself that’s several years old?
Because I paid a lot of money for all that airbrushing, and I intend to milk that shit for all I can. Damn expensive to look this cheap, is what.
Why do you use no picture at all and a fake name?
Why do you use a picture of someone that is not you and do you really believe that there is someone who’s name is Buz Martin?
The face is my own, you dipshit, and I’ve been called “Buz” since I was 3 years old. Even though it is a nickname, it is how I’m known by family and friends. In the past I’ve used “Boz” as a stagename, nom de plume, etc., but returned to my regular nickname last year to connect with old friends without too much confusion. What else ya got, chump?
“B-but, people who do dangerous jobs are paid less than [insert mediocre-to-shit-pay job here]!”
That’s more of an argument that those dangerous jobs should be paid more.
People who do those dangerous jobs do them because no one else is dumb enough to take them. Then, when those folks get those dangerous jobs, they want us to worship them and feed them doughnuts.
$25/hr is a fair number if teachers only worked 40 hrs/wk for 10 months (they actually work longer hours and work during the summer) but there is no way that a fully loaded teaching salary comes close to $50/hr.
I know tons of teachers, and very few work during the summer (except on their tans).
Really? They don’t do continuing ed to keep up certification or spend time prepping their classrooms? Either you’re lying or someone is lying to you.
Calm down…don’t drive angry. Why would I have to come on here and lie, but more importantly, why in the world would the teachers I know feel compelled to lie to me? Of course they may go prep a classroom or take a course here and there. That’s not “working all summer.” Name anyone with a professional job who doesn’t occasionally work when they’re off. I know tons of teachers (mainly through my wife) and believe me, they don’t work for the vast majority of the summer if they choose not to do so. It’s just a fact.
$25 an hour is $52,000 for a full year. Considering the healthcare benefits plus the amount of money one would need to contribute to a 401k in the private sector to generate the returns of the SCRS pension, it’s close.
A 33% load would is VERY generous so I could live with $34/hr… but a 100% load? That doesn’t pass the smell test. Not only even close.
To replace the retirement, an annuity of close to $1M would need to be purchased at age 62. For a 30 year teacher earning a 4% return on her money (SCRS figures), she would need to put away at least 25%. Healthcare purchased on the private exchanges is going to run another 15-20% of her salary (matching similar to the state health plan). Adding in the 3 months out of the year she doesn’t work, factors in another 25%. Other miscellaneous benefits and tax advantages (vision, dental, etc.) account for another 5-10%. That’s at least a 75% load being conservative with my figures.
Your analysis has sto so many flaws it isn’t worth pointing them all out. Why don’t you start by using the actual contribution rates for benefits? They’re readily available.
I wish all these dumb ass straight people would quit having dumb ass babies.Now that I’m getting special rights,I shouldn’t have to pay for your brats’ education .
As for gay people with children;what the fuck is wrong with y’all?!
I’d like Mande (and others) to focus on the totally-out-of-control spending from the district offices… money that doesn’t even come close to making it in the classroom or have anything to do with a child’s education. They (school districts) are a well-oiled machine that continues to find one reason after another to increase our taxes and pocket the money for things other than where it matters most.
Many school board elections are coming up Nov 4th. Do your homework and un-elect the rubberstampin’ “yes” men.
Mande, you are SO far off. Let’s look at what you got wrong (or just ignored):
1) The way the median income is often figured is faulty. Administrators (principals, assistant principals, district administrators, athletic directors, etc.) are almost always included in the numbers, substantially increasing the median. Kinda like trying to figure the median income for Wal-Mart employees in Bentonville while including the CEO and his entire administrative and headquarters staff, as well as store managers.
2) There is a pay scale in place for teachers based on experience and education. You won’t generally make the median with just an undergrad.
3) Summers aren’t generally “off”. Teachers are required to maintain proficiency/ certification on their own dime. Look at what USC is charging per credit-hour…. not cheap.
4) Adjunct professors are usually PART TIME employees…. not comparable.
5) I AM a cop, so I can say that YES, we are ridiculously underpaid. I’ve also been in a classroom, so I can comment intelligently on that -and YES, most actual teachers are underpaid as well. Remember, teachers manage approximately 30-40 “employees” in each of up to six “shifts” under a regulatory burden most business owners can’t even begin to imagine. Seriously, They are engaging not simply in teaching, but also managing. Ask a store manager in the private sector how much he makes…. I guarantee it will be more than 40K or 45K.
Ignorance is bliss, dear Mande, and you are VERY happy…
Manatee Mandee has something in common with sic(k) willie. Okay, okay.
Maybe more than one thing in common.
But, one thing sticks out.
Sorry, one thing stands out. Okay, sorry again.
One thing is clear.
They never let their ignorance get in the way when they bloviate about something.
http://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-for-teachers/7159/
S.C. has many great public school teachers, but low pay is just one of many challenges S.C. faces in recruiting and keeping more great teachers.
Manatee’s paper thin understanding of the issues is just that: paper thin.
She really should have accepted our Funding Editor’s offer a few years ago when she offered to get Mandeeee a job as a Hostess at Cagney’s at The Beach.
Some first hand business experience might help Mandee with her writing.
BIN News Editorial Staff
Always Flair and Balanced