“IS IT SO HARD TO DEMAND A REAL INVESTIGATION?”
By Ron Paul || Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine, Western politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said. President Barack Obama held a press conference to claim – even before an investigation – that it was pro-Russian rebels in the region who were responsible. His ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, did the same at the UN Security Council – just one day after the crash!
While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will not report.
They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when the European Union and United States overthrew the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without U.S.-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened.
The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons.
They will not report that the post-coup government in Kiev has, according to OSCE monitors, killed 250 people in the breakaway Lugansk region since June, including 20 killed as government forces bombed the city center the day after the plane crash! Most of these are civilians and together they roughly equal the number killed in the plane crash. By contrast, Russia has killed no one in Ukraine, and the separatists have struck largely military, not civilian, targets.
They will not report that the US has strongly backed the Ukrainian government in these attacks on civilians, which a State Department spokeswoman called “measured and moderate.”
They will not report that neither Russia nor the separatists in eastern Ukraine have anything to gain but everything to lose by shooting down a passenger liner full of civilians.
They will not report that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia is being blamed for the attack.
They will not report that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good deal of training that the separatists do not have.
They will not report that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have inflicted considerable losses on the Ukrainian government in the week before the plane was downed.
They will not report how similar this is to last summer’s U.S. claim that the Assad government in Syria had used poison gas against civilians in Ghouta. Assad was also gaining the upper hand in his struggle with U.S.-backed rebels and the U.S. claimed that the attack came from Syrian government positions. Then, U.S. claims led us to the brink of another war in the Middle East. At the last minute public opposition forced Obama to back down – and we have learned since then that U.S. claims about the gas attack were false.
Of course it is entirely possible that the Obama administration and the U.S. media has it right this time, and Russia or the separatists in eastern Ukraine either purposely or inadvertently shot down this aircraft. The real point is, it’s very difficult to get accurate information so everybody engages in propaganda. At this point it would be unwise to say the Russians did it, the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it.
Is it so hard to simply demand a real investigation?
Ron Paul is a former U.S. Congressman from Texas and the leader of the pro-liberty, pro-free market movement in the United States. His weekly column – reprinted with permission – can be found here.
143 comments
WTF? Does this guy only read one newspaper? All these facts are well known and well reported in various and multiple news media resources. I’m not really sure what point this person is trying to make, but, they need to get out more. And the “real” investigation is being hampered by Ukrainian separatists. He must’ve missed that part of it.
Shhhhhhhhh, asking questions that poke holes in RonPa’s semi-fact based diatribes might lead one to believe that he isn’t the smartest congressman who ever served!
Really Will, Ron is even more wack-a-doodle than usual. Maybe Dr.Paul should stick to bloviating on domestic politics because he is generally clueless about the realities of what’s going on outside outside our borders.
semi-fact based
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I thought that was the new “imminent threat” criteria.
But of course, our government would “never” lie to us, the world, or anyone else, when trying to get an agenda launched, now would it?
JUST IMAGINE WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN ACCOMPLISHED IF OBAMA’S COMMIE PROPAGANDA MEDIA MINISTRY, WENT AFTER THE TRUTH ABOUT BENGHAZI, LIKE THE SPIN THEY ARE PUTTING ON THIS.
“And the “real” investigation is being hampered by Ukrainian separatists. He must’ve missed that part of it.” – who told you that!? The day th? plane crash happened rebels asked for an international comittee to come to the region to investigate. And they were ready to provide their safety. But Ukrainian authorities wouldn’t let them come. Also rebels preserved the flight recorders and the bodies and helped transfer them. All Ukrainian authorities did was bomb the region although a temperarely cease fire due to the crash was agreed upon. So, not all the facts are in the western press after all, my friend. It’s all just propaganda to make it look like rebels have something to hide. Read http://rt.com/ and compare for yourself.
Forgive me, I should’ve added the word “apparently” in there. We’ll have to wait until an investigation is completed before making judgments. My actual point, though, was about this politician who seems to have a narrow perspective. But, then again, we all are biased in some way or another. That’s something I am working to overcome personally. Thank you for your input.
Ron Paul is delusional. He needs to stop pretending like he knows everything when he doesn’t even watch the news, scan the internet, and harvest information from other sources.. But we know he will just continue on making these things up in hid rotted out brain and assert them as if they are the absolute truth. People need to tune him out, and turn him off.
Delusional is the correct description of Paul, but he’s Sic’s Jesus Christ.
Yet the Ukrainians are blocked from investigating the site of the crash. If the rebels had nothing to do with it, they would want an investigation and they would be able to point to the position of the Ukrainian anti-aircraft battery, since it would be operating in territory that the rebels control. Instead the West is able to point to a Russian BUK operating in the town where the missile was fired. Sorry Ron, your conspiracy theory needs more facts to make it worth entertaining.
It might come as a big surprise to you, pal, but the rebels *are* the Ukraineans. Ukraineans are fighting Ukraneans. It’s called civil war!
LOL. The leader of the “Ukrainian” rebels is a Russian citizen.
Igor Vsevolodovich Girkin (Russian: ????? ???????????? ??????), also known as Igor Ivanovich Strelkov (Russian: ????? ???????? ????????), born on 17 December 1970,[1] is a Russian citizen from Moscow[2] who commands the Donbass People’s Militia paramilitary group
From Moscow… Huh. That’s a real civil war you got there, buddy.
So? There were “volunteers” from Latvia and Israel at Maidan. And don’t even think of saying that Maidan was a peaceful event. I saw pictures of Ukrainean policemen being torched … alive!!! And what was the visit of the head of CIA all about? I suppose he came to admire Kiev’s Saint Sophia.
“born on 17 December ”
Bad omen. I think that is Felix Dzerzhinsky’s birthday too.
Can you proof any of your statements with FACTS from investigation(which has not started even yet because Kiev is shelling the entire area and not because somebody “blocking them”)???
When you have no chance of getting elected to anything more than the House, it’s easy to speak w/ authority.
Sanford is similar,, except he got elected governor, and didn’t do a D*m# thing other than keep the seat warm. Haley looks great compared to the isolationist, can’t-get-along Sanford.
RonPaul will never have his kook-job polices implemented. So why not pontificate as if you are a foreign policy genius.
Right, because our current foreign policy has created such a Shangri La.
Obama is clueless, so we need to put RonPaul-FITS in charge.
My guess is you’re not a Logic major. It sounds like you never even took a class in it.
You sure as fuck didn’t…
Good comeback…for a 5-year-old.
Have you Stupid Son of a B*t#h#$ EVER come up / a thought not generated by someone else????…
Paul, like Folks, is nothing more than a provacateur. He managed to find 700,000 Texans silly enough to follow him in Washington for 20+ years, and of recent a few hundred thousand more who will help him by buying his bullshit and his books.
It’s a race to the bottom of the kooky conspiracy theory rabbit hole- RP has now taken the lead, but FITS, Ravenel, and Zero hedge will no doubt mount a comeback. It’s only a matter of time before one of them comes out and says what they’re thinking- that the freaking CIA did it…
Personally, I accept minced words and slanted news without objective proof as an acceptable catalyst for war…
Relax, man. Take a few deep, cleansing breaths. Who’s talking about going to war? Who believes we’re itching for the nasty, dangerous, and mutually shitty fight that US v Russia would represent? Check under your bed, bro. There’s no one there…
I know you discount Occam’s razor as philosophical hogwash, but for those of us in the business of predicting future bad stuff (and reverse engineering past bad stuff) it works really well. Despite all of the other slanted history RP threw into his stew, it looks like ol’ Hillary was right (I don’t say that too often). That particular missile system works pretty well, but is a bear (no pun intended) to use. Some drunk jackass separatist didn’t just crank it up, hit a button, and knock down a commercial jet 6 miles high in the air. The small team who lit that fire were either fairly well-trained separatists coached by Spetsnaz guys, or Spetsnaz guys working right alongside the separatists. At any rate, they very likely (like 99%) believed that they were bagging their second Ukrainian military transport in a month’s time. The other stories just don’t make sense. When all else fails, look for motivation, that is, why would actors do as they did? It was either separatists, or Putin’s boys. I’m going with the separatist theory for now, but no one I know is sharpening their bayonet yet…
Relax, man. Take a few deep, cleansing breaths. Who’s talking about going to war?
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um… me?
I have seven (now after two days ago five) apartments in Lugansk. My family is a mix of Russian and Ukrainian Ethnics. Yes we do intermarry. Roughly 1/2 the population of Lugansk 450K now is in camps in Russia, or with relatives or friends in Ukraine or Russia. Roughly 1/2 remained for various reasons. My last immediate relatives left the day before the MH17 went down. They were lucky. I know personally of homes (private) and apartments(more common) that have been leveled by Artillery. Typically, the LPR forces fight at the edge of the city – regardless of any propaganda. The OSCE observer just yesterday made that observation. One should NOT rely on just western media. As to the specialists necessary to bring down a MH17 – well they are all over this region (without Russian help) as this is a retirement region for 20+ year veterans of the various border wars. There are Plenty of individuals with their blood types tattooed on their arms that would know the technology. ALL weapons here except those brought in by the National Guard (Ukrainian) are Russian.
One using Occam’s razor needs to ask oneself one simple question – why did MH17 over a period of three flights gradually change its course to be directly over the combat zone where Ukraine and LPR forces had Ground to Air Missile Systems. Why did MH17 get ordered to drop from 35,000 to 33,000 directly over a no-fly zone. Why did the tape (of DPR officers) pushed so heavily by the Western (YELLOW Journalism at its best) press show up so quickly. Why did that tape by Western non-aligned experts – already get identified as being made on the 16th two days prior to the shoot down, why did that tape have so many splices. The LPR IF it had a fully functional 3 vehicle BUK element (they had only 2 vehicles necessary for full use of the system) shoot down MH17. IF they thought it was a target they would, that is why. Occam’s razor, if a BUK hit MH17 why after looking at the Western and Eastern press has there not been found fragments of a BUK missile? There has been plenty of time. I know now 5 individuals murdered in various ways in the Ukraine. 2 at a roadblock – without anyone knowing who’s road block. Two on the streets of Lugansk (artillery) One in a building (presumed dead) as the building melted from the Ukrainian Artillery. The USA is completely misjudging this situation. Both Russia leadership and Ukrainian Leadership is downplaying the civilian casualties. Why – 44 at the minimum were identified two days ago killed by Artillery, not 15, 16, 20. Yet Ukraine reported up its chain of command 15. Russia also lowered the numbers – as the Right Sector of Russia would LOVE to invade Ukraine with full force and killing 3000-4000 civilians over the past few months from Ukrainian Artillery (for the most part does not help the situation). If Ukraine goes NATO, then Russia Falls into civil war. Maybe the west wants a civil war with 8500 nuclear missiles available for all to use. Maybe the US press is a little bit dishonest in its coverage. The best comparison is the Yellow Journalism of 1898 and the Spanish American War, or perhaps the Gulf of Tonkin, or Perhaps the 2nd Iraq War Red Line. The United States should not be quite so in need of yet another enemy as Russia is not the Arab states where Saudi Arabia manipulates America like its puppet. Hint the Islamic State is a front for Saudi Against Iran. One should read some of the Progressive Press or at least watch Russia Today alternative press not just CNN – which by the way twice I have seen them put Crimea in India and one other place. Simply amateurish War mongering coverage.
Lastly, MH17 is in a Rebel controlled territory in a civil war. The rebels do not have the manpower to hold that ground if they wanted too, as the Ukrainian Military has a HUGE advantage in Armored Forces and that is OPEN terrain. If Ukraine wanted that area, they could have taken it days ago. It is good for their PR to have LPR/DPR forces which are NOT trained in such a capacity perform crowd control functions at MH17. It advances their aims. The day of and after MH17 went down, Ukrainian Army heavily assaulted the city of Lugansk/Luhansk and after that assault failed Intelligently (finally) started taking over the supply line from Lugansk to Donetz. Now the Rebels/Autonomists/Sepratists are in trouble and as normal in this case Strelkov is saying so, and for the reason I just stated. One should expect a large infusion of independent Russian forces to hit shortly to solidify and take back the supply channel between Lugansk and Donetz.
Ron Paul is essentially correct.
Why did MH17 get ordered to drop from 35,000 to 33,000 directly over a no-fly zone.
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so it would be easier to identify as a passenger plane?
Three problems with this part of your conspiracy-
1. There was not a “No-fly zone” in effect at the time of the shoot-down. Most airlines were avoiding the area because it was smart ball to do so, but a few who were too cheap to load the few thousand pounds of extra fuel required to circumvent the area were flying through at high altitude.
2. The 2000 feet you’re talking about would have minimal (if any) impact attendant to ID-ing an aircraft type or status in flight. That missile system system “reads” targets well above that altitude (like twice that altitude or higher), and visually the difference would be practicably indiscernible.
3. The “ID” happens on a screen and a readout, not some dude with binoculars. The newer systems are “transponder-capable” (meaning they can read the four-digit transponder code all commercial flights continuously transmit) and would INSTANTLY identify the flight as commercial once painted by the targeting radar. Older systems (like the one likely used in this incident) are not “transponder-capable,” and rely upon the radar ping. Radar pings are horrible for this purpose- for example, the Ukrainian military transport shot down last week had a wingspan of around a hundred feet, while the 777-200 shot down last week has a wingspan of around 200. The little blip that operator was likely looking at can’t distinguish that- it just looked like “big plane.”
Just a few facts, no theory implied on my part…
Also- here’s a little open-source background on the clowns running that circus behind the scenes…
http://theweek.com/article/index/264719/this-spy-agency-is-putins-secret-weapon
You know what *I* heard?
Putin’s people dubbed the tapes on those black boxes…
Yeah.. and they erased the 11 minutes of conversations about how that leeetle bitty dot down there looked like a missile battery… they even turned the plane so the passengers could see it, and one of them had super black op equipment with special optics, and he read the serial number off of the side of it… from 30,000 feet!
They talked over that whole conversation with trained, English speaking actors… but the CIA got those boxes from Malasia, and did some really crazy shit on em to prove they’d been tampered with…
You know how they knew? Because our satellites… way out there, in outer space… saw the same serial number!
And
Whoa, brotha! You need to get back on that med schedule… ;-)
well…. that may be true…. but I’m not the one that responded to the wrong message.
You are, to be polite, full of sh*t.
“reverse engineering past bad stuff”
“Wow, that was really terrible! How do we do that again?”
Reverse engineering must now mean more than I think it does.
Didn’t we used to call this “dissecting the problem” or some similar expression?
It means no more or less than it always has- it’s simply examining a system, process, device, etc. at hand to determine the parts and processes attendant to its operation. This can be done for many purposes; commercial knockoffs, building our own flying saucers from the ones out at Area 51 (OK, that’s a joke for the tin-foil hat crowd), copying military hardware, or recreating a chain of events (esp. in accident reconstruction, bombing/arson investigations, etc.). Simply “dissecting the problem” is gebneral pablum akin to “thinking outside the box.” It doesn’t imply an exact recreation of the chain of events for investigative purposes. We reverse engineer all kinds of stuff in the counter-terr business- bombings, conspiracies, leaks, etc. It works pretty well.
He’s just a spook… I think he means they used some kind of adaptive filter on a cloud of data.. like a polynomial curve fit using least mean squares regression… some kind of stochastic gradient descent method that assumes that if the LMS error, or whatever error they like, is small enough, that it might represent a law linked to the behavior of the object or group, “proving” the phenomena under analysis is one of a larger class of things that can be measured with such precision, that the original cause can be declared to be “truth”… or at they like to believe that.
The only problem is, you can force fit a curve to almost any random data, if your constraints are loose enough.
In his world, that’s commonly referred to as disinformation. In big pharma’s world, they call it “profit,” politicians call it “representation,” but we in the reality based community call it lying.
I can assure you that it’s neither that complicated nor that stochastic! In terrorism investigations, analysts lean more on the social sciences than mathematics and/or probability theory (although that can come into play once in a while). Link charts, relationship scatter diagrams, past intel, financials, interrelated / symbiotic groups, etc. Not that sexy, but it works.
I know. They use Occam’s razor instead of the application of metrics. Sort of like using leeches instead of modern medicine. Besides, it’s not an exact science.. its only human lives.
I have news for you, mi amigo…any technique or system designed to deconstruct, reverse engineer, or (especially) predict human behavior is, by definition, NOT an exact science. You can cling to your metrics and hard science if you like, but out here in the real world where some of the people we track intentionally blow themselves to smithereens in locations where they can take as many innocent men, women, and even infants with them as possible your metrics and computer modeling don’t work that well. Believe it or not, the USG does it both ways- we have cube-farms full of egghead brainiacs in Virginia who run their algorithms and filter the raw intel submitted from the field through every program, formula, algorithm, or metric you could imagine, and once in a great while they gave us some good juice. Nine times out of ten, though, the behavioral models and old-school investigative techniques were faster and more accurate. It became a running joke between the gun-toters and the analysts, and is still true today. Your “it’s only human lives” line is just silly. The guys who are out in the field doing what they do sans-algorithms do so in very dangerous environments, and they do it precisely to save lives. They sometimes lose their own lives in the process, but they know that “algorithm” going in, so they’re at peace with it. Even the egghead analyst crowd isn’t doing it for the fame and money. They slave away in depressing, Orwellian cube-farms and labs for $75k a year and can’t tell the folks at their dinner party that the behavior modeling software they spent 12 hours running that day interrupted a bomb plot somewhere. I know it sounds corny to a lot of the folks on this blog (I get that, I do), but I *rarely* met a person in that game who wasn’t in it for exactly the right reasons. Neither the military, the specops groups, or the intel community are full of beady-eyed sociopaths who just like killing folks. I could bore you to tears with stories that prove otherwise (but won’t).
So to boil it down: them city folks ain’t got no common sense, all that book-learning don’t do them no good.
Mah pappy show’d me how to use a dowsin’ rod, and I found more water than that city feller with his gaydar.
Sure, if that gets you to sleep. What I actually said was that you can’t boil any system or set of actions based upon human behavior down to a nice, neat algorithm. Science helps (a good bit, as I explained), but is not the magic bullet.
I thought that’s what *I* said.
I thought this nut case was dead?
Not 1 single other country is willing to say what the USA is saying. Nobody else is jumping to conclusions. Let the other shoe drop. Obama is a proven liar.
The Netherlands, Australia, Britain, Germany, France, and Malaysia all regard you as an idiot.
Not true. None of these countries has yet come out with a conclsion or claimed to know anything specific – just the US and the liar in chief. Especially telling that Malaysia has chosen not to speculate or make a statement. You should read before you reply.
Look at all the kooks screaming about Ron Paul being a kook. Paul called the housing bubble, and was called a kook…he warned us about Iraq…and was called a kook…over and over again the losers that get it wrong continue to call him a kook.
It’s bizarro world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TZ5cpaPlf4
and he also knows that the Fed/Central Banks are running the greatest Ponzi scheme of all time, let the dice roll…
Fuck’ em. They are first to suffer from their degeneracy.
Being right a couple of times on fairly easy stuff doesn’t mean one can’t be kooky!
Finally an intelligent American.
where? WHERE?
Fuck a bunch of Ron Paul (include “shirker” Mark Sanfraud too!!!!)
Neither of them are worth a cow patty in a pasture !!!
(include “shirker” Mark Schadenfreude too!!!!)
Neither of them are worth a cow patty in a pasture !!!
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How about if they were ground up and mixed with recycled plastic, cardboard and resin, and then compressed into planks for decking for a residence claimed as a tennis camp for tax purposes?
I think I know her.
So this guy is the Libertarian godsend? Everything he says the media won’t tell you, l’ve heard or read from the media.
Ideologues like Paul are so predictable. Before I even read the article, l knew he would blame the US for the plane crash. He has formed an opinion before the investigation he is asking everyone else to wait for.
Paul’s ideological narrative is that US involvement outside our borders is bad. Everything bad that happens, even when done by the Russians, the US is somehow responsible.
Near the end he admits that the Russians may be responsible, but doesn’t bother offer what the US reaction should be because he is too embarrassed. Paul believes we should reward the Russian shooting down of the airliner by withdrawing our support for the Poreshenko government.
We should just acknowledge that Ukraine is in the Russians sphere of influence so that after establishing hegemony, Putin can move on to Moldova and the Balkans.
They will have learned the lessons of Georgia and Ukraine and will surely submit without much resistance.
They may even orchestrate elections to make the west feel less guilty. Who would bother to challenge an election, when 96% of the people turn out and 98% of them vote Putin’s way.
I’m still at the starting line, waiting for proof the plane was shot down by a ground to air missile. Everyone else is completely satisfied with the echo chamber of “intelligence sources” and deleted “social media” posts by an “alleged former Russian intelligence agent.”
he has developed weapons of mass destruction
“The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas.”
“We know where they are [Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction]. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.”
he has weapons of mass destruction facilities
“I’m glad you asked. It has nothing to do with oil, literally nothing to do with oil.”
he has weapons of mass destruction programs
We conclude that the Intelligence Community was dead wrong in almost all of its pre-war judgments about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. —Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction (Letter of transmittal pdf)
Now look, part of the reason we went into Iraq was — the main reason we went into Iraq, at the time, was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn’t, but he had the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction.
The existence of WMD’S wouldn’t have changed your mind on the Iraq war.
You are resisting the possibility that the Russians are responsible because you don’t want the US to act if they are. Resistance to act against Russian interference in Ukraine is easier if Russia had nothing to do with the crash.
The existence of WMD’S wouldn’t have changed your mind on the Iraq war.
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Actually, it did. I remember where I was when I heard that Saddam had nuclear weapons, sarin and vx…. and I think, 15 minute readiness to deliver toxins by air to western targets. I was on the I-75 access road, going south, waiting in the left turn lane to turn onto 15th street, and I heard it on the radio.
I was convinced by that, and was determined that removing Saddam and his kids was necessary – he’d gone too far.
Up until that time, I was focused on the fact that Iraq had the 2nd largest reserves of oil on the planet.
You are resisting the possibility that the Russians are responsible because you don’t want the US to act if they are.
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By looking at “the data” this time, I’m sorry, but I don’t see evidence. I see invective, assumptions, slanted news, hearsay, “unnamed intelligence sources”, “alleged” foreign intelligence agents, weapons lobbyists, “analysts,” and pundits who love the smell of their own farts.
Some of us were fooled once by our MIC war machine, perhaps more than once, to include myself.
“Fool me once, shame on you.”
“Fool me twice, shame on me.”
Sorry, I’m not biting again and I get the feeling you are in the same place as I am on this one, Euwe.
How long before the people open their eyes and wake up?
I was semi-impressed the dimwitted clowns didn’t bite on NitWitAndYahoo’s red line for nuking Iran.
Who wouldn’t be convinced to go to war based on Wile E. Coyote’s cartoon bomb with burning fuse and red line presented to the UN as proof of the proximity and inevitability of world destruction should Iran be allowed to enrich one more tube of uranium?
I agree with a lot of things but not that Putin does not know what happened. I think Russian Separatist with the help of Russian advisors shot down the plane thinking it was a Ukrainian military plane. The presence of the Russian Military Advisors is the reason there is so much effort to cover up what happened.
Luckily, anything we want to believe is supported by the same fictions, if not the news reports, which makes it convenient to win arguments about what the “truth” is.
I’M NOT BUYING IT. PUTIN WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN AND WOULD NOT BE THAT STUPID. THE WHOLE THING HURTS PUTIN AND I DON’T THINK HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.
I agree with a lot of things but not that Putin does not know what happened. I think Russian Separatist with the help of Russian advisors shot down the plane thinking it was a Ukrainian military plane. The presence of the Russian Military Advisors is the reason there is so much effort to cover up what happened.
…..There has been a strange silence from Putin….
Yeah because press you are reading does not publish anything what is not serving its propaganda!
I used to respect him, but Ron Paul really lost me on this one. He’s been reading RT too much, and become a willing stooge of Putin. I agree that foreign policy needs to be humble and recognize the errors of the past. But does that mean whatever happens is the west’s fault? Had the US been supporting the rebels, he would have been the first to blame blame the US. Why hold Russia to a different standard?
Russia and Ron Paul were blaming the US a few months back, simply the war overtook that narrative. Frankly, if you ask them they will still blame the US. Simply the article was about the genocide committed on the civilian population of Ukraine (regardless of ethnic background). You will find, once this war goes HOT, that Ron Paul was essentially correct. Right now it is just incubating.
Note the NGO in Ukraine spent 5 billion (mostly in bribes) over the past 20 years trying pseudo democracy. For 20 years one group of parasite oligarch billionaires after another (Russian and Ukrainian) took over and STOLE all the countries assets. Even recently, there are numerous scandals in the Ukraine press of theft from the soldiers fighting for Ukraine by the upper classes which control the military and Western IMF aid. Western Rations sold on the Open market, equipment sold to the Rebels. Very common. Do you really expect a society which is based around Kleptocracy to really change its character. The overthrow of the Parasite Yanukovych followed by the according to wiki leaks mafia criminal Poroshenko yet another billionaire, all this, preceeded by multiple billionaires prior, really simply made Ukraine Hell on Earth in the East. The Western Press does not put reporters in the Rebel region. Frankly the people of Lugansk/Luhansk (who are just as good as you and deserve not to be blown up by massive Artillery barrages day and night) all collectively if asked wish that had MH17 had come down at all it could have landed in the middle of Lugansk/Luhansk, as that would have saved countless lives, as the western press WOULD HAVE TO COME. It didn’t and our families continue to die, melted. The real casualties in Ukraine are in the 4-5K range of civilians from disappearances, rape camps, tortured executions, Artillery (the biggest) – question, who now goes into melted residential apartment buildings in Luhansk. The answer is there are many more bodies in the burning buildings then on the streets. Question: Why does Ukraine not provide Refugee camps, yet Russia does – answer-> Ukraine figures that the Ukrainians will come back over the border while the Russians will remain in Russia more likely. So no services for people leaving the war zone from Ukraine. Does that really sound like a caring government to you? We were pro-maidan, but two days after Yanukovych departed power, the RUMP Rada of 226 out of 450 original members voted to restrict Russian Use as a official language in Ukraine. i.e. no more government sites dedicated to (Hungarian, Rumanian, Russian). The then PM Turchynov vetoed the bill of language restriction as he knew its passage would start a civil war. The fact the Rada did a 226 (some of the PM members were appointed as the 1st and 3rd largest parties of Ukraine (which had together been the majority) were missing from Kiev due to disappearances, hospitalization, running off with $$, fear of lives – fear of lives was the big one. Well, this will describe some aspects of the current Rada
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-medias-disinformation-campaign-on-ukraine-there-are-no-neo-nazis-in-the-interim-government/5376530
Ron Paul you are an idiot. You hate America and yet you make your career by working for it and lambasting it. You are a coward and a traitor. When you refer to the U.S. destabilization of Ukraine — is that similar to what you and Fox News do on a daily basis — all while waving the flag and Bible?
NO, actually Ron Paul is one of the very, very, few in politics who loves America enough to tell it the truth, so that it does not commit financial and literal suicide by engaging in wars which only benefit the ultra-rich, who will never be in harm’s way.
And you…probably work for the media.
Ukraine says it has phone transcripts proving jetliner was shot down
Ukraine’s security services produced what they said were two intercepted telephone conversations that they said showed rebels were responsible. In the first call, the security services said, rebel commander Igor Bezler tells a Russian military intelligence officer that rebel forces shot down a plane.
In the second, two rebel fighters – one of them at the scene of the crash – say the rocket attack was carried out by a unit of insurgents about 25 kilometers (15 miles) north of the crash site.
Neither recording could be independently verified.
Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister, said on his Facebook page the plane was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters (33,000 feet) when it was hit by a missile from a Buk launcher, which can fire up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).
Ukraine’s government didn’t say how it knew those details.
Secretary of State John Kerry during TV interviews on Sunday, reiterated claims that the passenger airliner was likely to have been brought down by a SA-11 surface-to-air missile.
To top it off, the separatists have implicated themselves, Kerry claimed. Intelligence intercepted conversationsamong separatists talking about knocking down a plane. And one separatist leader allegedly bragged on social media about shooting down a plane.
“We know that very shortly (after the crash), separatists were bragging in the social media about having shot down a transport plane,” Kerry said on Fox News Sunday. “We know that the so-called defense minister of the People’s Republic of Donetsk, Mr. Igor Strelkov, actually posted a bragging social media posting of having shot down a military transport. And then when it became apparent it was civilian, they pulled it down from social media.”
Kerry’s evidence relies on intelligence that the public can’t access
17.07.2014 17:50 (Moscow time)
In the region of Torez AN-26 plane has been shot, it is somewhere near the ‘Progress’ mine.
We have warned them – not to fly ‘in our sky.’
Here is video-proof of yet another ‘bird fall.’
The bird has fallen behind the (waste heap), it missed the residential quarters. Peaceful citizens were not hurt.
This is a real post, but is it concrete evidence that his assertion is first-hand evidence, or supposition drawn from “other sources?”
Advanced U.S. satellites played a key role in the determination by intelligence officials that a surface-to-air missile shot down a Malaysian jetliner over Ukraine on Thursday.
The assessment was almost certainly based on a technical branch of spycraft known as measurement and signature intelligence, or MASINT, analysts said. The method detects, tracks and identifies a variety of electronic signatures, including radar.
The Pentagon would have detected the launch because of its heat signature, said Riki Ellison, founder and chairman of Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance, a group that lobbies for missile defense spending.
“They would have known exactly where it was launched, where it was headed, and the rate at which it was traveling,” Ellison said.
Is this what we accept from out “intelligence” agencies for “proof” and “evidence” that can lead to world changing events? Hearsay and social media posts taken as concrete proof?
Remember this?
“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”
and this?
MR. RUSSERT: That was in January. And in June—June 8—you were on MEET THE PRESS; I asked you about that, and this was your response.
(Videotape, June 8, 2003):
DR. RICE: The president quoted a British paper. We did not know at the time, no one knew at the time in our circles—maybe someone knew down in the bowels of the agency, but no one in our circles knew—that there were doubts and suspicions that this might be a forgery. Of course, it was information that was mistaken.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: “No one in our circles.” That has proven to be wrong.
DR. RICE: No, Tim, that has not proven to be wrong. No one did know that they were forgeries. The notion of the forgeries came in February or in March when this was—when this came to the CIA. It is true that we learned, subsequent to my comments to you, that Director Tenet did not want to stand by that statement. And I would never want to see anything in a presidential statement—speech—that the director of Central Intelligence did not want to have there.
And I’m the national security adviser. When something like this happens, I feel personally responsible for it happening because it obscured the fact that the president of the United States did not go to war over whether Saddam Hussein tried to acquire yellow cake in Africa. He went to war over a threat from a bloody tyrant in the most volatile region of the world who had used weapons of mass destruction before, and was continuing to try to acquire them. And so, of course, this should not have happened.
MR. RUSSERT: But when you say that no one in our circles, and it was maybe down in the bowels of the Intelligence Agency, a month after that appearance, you said this, “The CIA cleared the speech in its entirety.”
And then your top deputy, Stephen Hadley, on July 23, said this.
“Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley told reporters that he received two memos from the CIA in October that cast doubt on intelligence reports that Iraq had sough to buy uranium from Niger to use in developing nuclear weapons. Both memos were also sent to chief speechwriter Michael Gerson and one was sent to national security adviser, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, Hadley said.”
And George Tenet called Mr. Hadley directly and put—issued a warning on that information. Were you aware of any concerns by the CIA about this incident?
DR. RICE: First of all, the CIA did clear the speech in its entirety and George Tenet has said that. He’s also said that he believes that it should not have been cleared. And we apparently, with the—in October for the Cincinnati speech, not for the State of the Union, but the Cincinnati speech, George Tenet asked that this be taken out of the Cincinnati speech, the reference to yellow cake. It was taken out of the Cincinnati speech because whenever the director of Central Intelligence wants something out, it’s gone.
MR. RUSSERT: How’d it get back in?
DR. RICE: It’s not a matter of getting back in. It’s a matter, Tim, that three-plus months later, people didn’t remember that George Tenet had asked that it be taken out of the Cincinnati speech and then it was cleared by the agency. I didn’t remember. Steve Hadley didn’t remember. We are trying to put now in place methods so you don’t have to be dependent on people’s memories for something like that.
MR. RUSSERT: Did you ever read the memo that I referenced?
DR. RICE: I don’t remember the memo. It came after it had been taken out of the speech, and so it’s quite possible that I didn’t. But let me be very clear: This shouldn’t happen to the president of the United States, and we will do everything that we can to make sure that it doesn’t happen again.
MR. RUSSERT: The Washington Post framed the issue this way: “The remarks by Rice and her associates raise two uncomfortable possibilities for the national security adviser. Either she missed or overlooked numerous warnings from intelligence agencies seeking to put caveats on claims about Iraq’s nuclear weapons program, or she made public claims that she knew to be false.”
Are we going to accept this shit AGAIN, without seeing proof of these assertions?
Someone gets run over, an anonymous source says “it’s likely an Iranian who shot him, and while he was laying there, someone ran over him” and then some drunken Iranian official’s social page says “it’s about fucking time!” and then removes it, thinking oh, hell – what if they think…. and everyone starts looking for an Iranian sniper… the body is tampered with, and is finally reported missing.. so we drop nukes on Medina and Mecca – what’s wrong with this picture?
Libyan Arab Airlines Flight 114, 1973, 108 dead, shot down by israel
Iran Air Flight 655, 1988, 290 dead, shot down by murica
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, 2001, 78 dead, shot down by ukraine
Libyan Arab Airlines Flight 114, 1973, 108 dead, shot down by israel
Iran Air Flight 655, 1988, 290 dead, shot down by murica
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, 2001, 78 dead, shot down by ukraine
4000 killed 20000 wounded, trying to save the Iraqis from 9/11.
Libyan Arab Airlines Flight 114, 1973, 108 dead, shot down by israel
Iran Air Flight 655, 1988, 290 dead, shot down by murica
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, 2001, 78 dead, shot down by ukraine
“s it so hard to simply demand a real investigation?” Well, um, yes it is, because a real investigation is being systematically obstructed by people who, there is every reason to believe, have much to lose from a real investigation.
What the hell are you talking about? Don’t you realize what a dangerous precedent a real investigation would be?
A real investigation whose data was shared with the public could destroy our fine republic with unnecessary information that could be used against us by our enemies!
Let the “unnamed sources” take care of it. I think we should get congress to authorize an “office of special plans” that has no oversight by any of the three branches of government.
The real problem is red tape.
The separatists are so fucking drunk and incompetent that they literally outed themselves on social media. Nothing more needs to be said.
RON PAUL 2014!!!!!! WHITE POWER!!!!!
YOU AIN’T RIGHT IN THE HEAD.
I think that on the balance of probabilities, the separatists did down the airliner. However, it is very convenient for the US administration and Kiev that this happened at this time. It was quite widely known that the separatists had acquired ‘buk’ missile units when they overran a Ukrainian base some weeks ago. The separatists mentioned this on their page. What isn’t known is if they were functional and if they had volunteers capable of operating them. Fast forward to last week when suddenly the separatists started bring down Ukrainian planes at alledgedly higher altitudes than would be possible using MANPAD air defence missiles. Then the tragedy. But the biggest question, IMHO, is given that there was obviously suspicion or actual knowledge on the Ukrainian side that the separatists could bring down planes from higher altitudes, most probably from ‘buk’ missile units, WHY DID THEY NOT COMPLETELY CLOSE THE AIRSPACE ABOVE EASTERN UKRAINE TO CIVILIAN AIRLINERS? It would be very interesting to see the flightradar24 analysis of flights passing over the Eastern Ukraine over the past week up to that point in time in order to discover whether or not MH17 was actually given a slightly more northerly track and why it is told to fly at FL310 and not FL330 which it wanted to do. If you want to hide a lie, hide it in plain sight: so the question is again WHAT WAS THAT PLANE DOING IN THAT LOCATION GOING IN THAT DIRECTION AT THAT TIME? HOW DOES ITS PATH COMPARE TO OTHER CIVILIAN AIRLINERS THAT DAY? I don’t know the answer – haven’t done the analysis BUT the people who had most to gain from this horrific tragedy were the US and the Ukraine. Someone should check it out.
Right! The question that keeps turning over and over in my mind is, “what possible gain could Putin have realized from doing such a thing?”
The only rational answer I can come up with is, “absolutely none.”
Putin had noting to gain. It was a mistake. They thought they were shooting down a military plane. But that does not matter. The Russians are still responsible.
Are they “responsible” in the same way we are when we furnish savages with weapons, who later use them to slaughter innocents (say, in the Middle East)?
I think Russian military advisors were present. The Russians are training the rebels on the use of these weapons, and probably fired the missile..
It does not matter what YOU think. Where you there?
Last I checked, we weren’t supplying the Palestinians -that’s the Iranians.
Let’s see, we furnished the Afghans with all kind of weaponry when they were fighting those “evil Russians” back in the 80’s. I believe some of that weaponry has been used against us, innocents, or our interests since then. Yes, I recall reading Soldier Of Fortune magazine back then and rooting for their staff when they went over and lent a hand to the Mujahideen (sp?). Some of us do learn from our mistakes.
Look at those wonderful Syrian rebels that OUR government (along with Lindsey Graham, John McCain, and the usual cast of scumbuckets) are backing. These are the ones beheading people left and right, engaging in cannibalism, and other barbaric acts. Where is OUR responsibility for their acts?
EXACTLY!
It seems like you were right there when those Russians pushed the button? Weren’t you?
I WISH HE WAS, MAYBE THEN WE WOULD ALL GET THE TRUTH, SINCE THE MEDIA LIES ALL THE TIME.
Big C, once again you make sense with an economy that forces me to read your stuff. I would only add that ???????? ????? will still manage to turn this awful incident to his advantage, not because he is a bully – which he IS, BTW – but becasue of the coward in the Big House.
MORE THAN A COWARD, HE’S A PUZZY.
quite right. i’m sure it did not occur to any passenger on that plane that they would be flying over that area. and pretty sure they would have requested a change of flight plan if given the opportunity. malaysia was negligent in trying to save a few gallons of gas while other airlines were being more prudent.
You are quite right. Note to self- DON’T book any flights on Malaysia Air for me or anyone I like…
quite right. i’m sure it did not occur to any passenger on that plane that they would be flying over that area. and pretty sure they would have requested a change of flight plan if given the opportunity. malaysia was negligent in trying to save a few gallons of gas while other airlines were being more prudent.
“It was quite widely known that the separatists had acquired ‘buk’
missile units when they overran a Ukrainian base some weeks ago.” That’s not the whole truth.
1)The ‘buk’ was made inoperative by ukrainian forces before the base was overrun. That was reported by ukrainian authorities themselves. But quietly forgotten afterwards.
2) To operate and aim and shoot with the ‘buk’ you need radio location and skills. Rebels don’t have that. Ukrainian forces do.
3) You can’t just see and shoot at the plane when it is 10 km high in the sky. it will pass the spot you are in miliseconds. Ukrainian forces new exactly the root of the plain and even asked the plain to change the root.
“Fast forward to last week when suddenly the separatists started bringing
down Ukrainian planes at alledgedly higher altitudes than would be
possible using MANPAD air defence missiles.”
They brought down ukrainian planes flying 3-4 km high. Not 10! You can do it with a portable air defense system and no radio location is needed.
“WHAT WAS THAT PLANE DOING IN THAT LOCATION GOING IN THAT DIRECTION AT THAT TIME?”
It was being sacrificed. To make rebels look like villains.
All the Ron Paul haters leaping to the attack! What are they afraid of? That the seething anger of the American majority finds a voice? A leader?
“International Law” is frequently in conflict with “Freedom”. The proper way for the U.S. to act in the case of Eastern Ukraine is to demand an internationally supervised and recognized referendum in those provinces who reject the artificial boundaries that presently define the Ukraine.
We must understand that if the United Nations had been established in the 18th Century, the land mass that we call the Unites States would still be in the hands of the Native American Indians. No Manifest Destiny. No Monroe Doctrine.
Manifest destiny – second wave of pilgrims come here and find most natives dead of our foul diseases. They think God did it because he wanted us to have everything – Manifest Destiny. Monroe Doctrine – conviction to not let foreign powers unduly influence events in the Americas. Now we are the foreign power unduly influencing a far away country.
RonPaul is a BIG proponet of vice, including GAMBLING…
Good read on Democrats trying to prop up gambling interests to take more tax money: Read: http://scdigest.blogspot.com/
Mephistopheles forbid, vice and GAMBLING. What next dancing, sex, WITCHES? 1692 called they want their political philosophy back and they need someone to operate the gallows for a few hangings.
Yeah, dude: if you oppose gambling for the trash it attracts and the failure it is, you must be a 1690s Witch Hunter…..
Are you just faking stupidity, or are you a genuine, brain-dead Dumb@$$?
Faux morality, the exact same thing that caused the Salem Witch trails and hanging, pressings, etc. New Jersey failed but NJ fails at everything gambling is just not an exception to the rule that NJ generally fails at everything.
Look at Nevada (Las Vegas in particular)which has a thriving gaming industry in comparison. Could the Grand Strand not copy this model? Glitz and Glam on the Grand Strand, and South Carolina has one thing Vegas doesn’t a beach. Take it out of the desert and move it east to beaches of the Grand Strand and I can see huge resorts with billions in profit each year. Tourism up, local and state economy up, tax revenue up, and the cost to the citizens zero. Vice pays and it pays well, just ask the Mormon Church one of the biggest investors and backers and profit earners of the Nevada gaming economy.
Of course all the above is never going to happen because puritans infect our state like a plague. The faux morality is what is killing the Republican Party and electing the likes of Obama.
WELL SAID, and all true!!!!
So anyone who opposes your Dumb@$$, panacea tax scheme is operating on the ‘Salem Witch’ Trial mentality? How F*#king Stupid are you?
Go to Read: http://scdigest.blogspot.com/ and educate yourself you Ignorant, LiberalTarian F*#k…don’t just run your mouth on ignorant cliches, your puppet masters feed you, so you don’t have to think…
Atlantic City gambling is going belly-up. NJ is a cesspool, and they are already murdering brothers in the streets of Myrtle Beach..and your Dumb@$$ thinks begging in more vice, is a good idea..
No wonder we have a failed-@$$ fool in the White House. With Dumb F*#ks like you voting, it’s a wonder it’s not worse.
#$*&%$#&% *$@&%*@$ @&*(#@& !(*^%*@#&% !#%&) [link to shitty blog] #@%&!* &!*#)%&@)$#%& @(*%&
Your damned blog is nothing more than really poorly presented talking points out of extremists right wing propaganda. It’s pretty bad when I call it out like that as I consider myself right of center but at least I use my brain to analyze the situation, that’s blog is the mentally defective child of Jerry Falwell and Pat Buchanan.
Looking at it from a dollars and cents perspective breaking the state owned monopoly on gambling in South Carolina will bring in additional tourist dollars to the Grand Strand. There are significant infrastructure needs in that area specifically and around the state in general. If you want to pay for it with out a significant increase in gas tax or property tax then gaming needs to be on the table.
Atlantic City is a cesspool but the gaming industry isn’t the cause. It’s been controlled by The Mob since the 1930s, gambling was legalized in 1976. There is a significant crime problem in the neighborhoods surrounding the Boardwalk that is leading to decreased outings by many to the area but that won’t be covered by the mainstream media because it’s a demographic problem that the won’t address. I was there in 2012 for a work convention at newest resort casino in Atlantic City and we were advised by resort staff not to leave the immediate board walk area due to unsafe neighborhoods. Atlantic City also sucks because there is nothing to do but gamble, which I don’t do, so I was bored out of my mind once the work day was over. Nothing to do but get a few drinks in the hotel bar and the off to bed.
Las Vegas needs to be the model, make Ocean Blvd the new Vegas Strip of the east. Resort style casinos, that will attract families, with shows, high class restaurants, beaches, etc. You’ll attract all kinds of people and bring in huge amounts of out of state money.
The shooting you speak of was related to the abortion that is Atlantic Beach Bike Week and the participants in it were directly out of North Charleston gangs. ABBW needs to be shut down or heavily policed. It’s completely unrelated to bringing gaming to Myrtle Beach.
I might be a Dumb Fuck, but at least I know enough to analyze an issue and not repeat stupid talking points from either side both of which have failed as of late. I’m not in the business of trying to figure out which set of failures is worse because failure is failure. If all the voters would spend more time analyzing what is truly going and make decisions accordingly then we would all be better off. As it is everything is right now everyone relies on sound-bites and ideological mumbo jumbo
You are a STUPID cliche. Your Bull-$#!* fails in practice, over and over.
Wow STUPID cliche that’s a new one, never been called that before I’ll go add it to my list. I guess you ran out of pointless non-relevant things to prattle on and on about, so bring out the name calling. Le Sigh.
Las Vegas is a failure? I believe my point is that we could remake Vegas which is successful in Myrtle Beach and have it be more successful.
Why all the vitriol towards anyone that disagrees with you in the least? Dr. Paul has some good ideas, are they all perfect? No, but no ones ideas are perfect and we aren’t going to agree with anyone on everything. I can guarantee he would make a better president than Obama, Hillary or Elizabeth Warren.
Hmn – Isn’t the bible belt infected with crime? If moral conviction is so desirable and congruent with public good why are the biggest bible-pushing states also the poorest? Is it because God is punishing them for getting it wrong? What do you have against freedom anyway? If you get your way in the future, will I need a government permit to take a dump?
Award winning former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry
Ron Paul is a disgrace. Three days of rotting bodies on Cold War surplus ‘refrigerator’ train cars is enough to turn most peoples’ stomach.
Even scattered, RCSD or CPD still couldn’t find them.
What happened? You get arrested again?
“Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight”
It was not a CRASH it was SHOT DOWN. Then I guess the bits crashed into the ground, but the plane DID NOT CRASH!
This guy is an idiot, can’t even get his opening premise correct.
False flag? The below is excerpted from yesterday’s no agenda show.
SA-11 uses SSR interogation and SSR interception (passively listening
to interogations by other grounds) for target reconaisance – as do most
widely sold airdefense targeting systems. If MH-17 read without
problem, it would have returned the flight-control issued identifyer,
the operators would have ignored it and that’s it. However… Imagine
that the reponses on Mode A/C were suppressed (cheap standard jamming
as happens all the time by accident when two planes fly in a line of
sight from the ground antenna and are less then 4km apart). And that
instead a transponder being on the same line of sight from the ground
would have answered to NATO MILMOD (Mode 4/5) requests from a third
party. The SU-11 controllers would have immediately identified it as a
NATO military plane, or if Mode 2 for a Ukrainian plane… In that case
the ATR of the control unit would have pre-selected the plane wrongly,
making MH-17 a “confirmed target”. This would be far-fetched if not for
the NATO electronic warfare training doing exactly these scenarios just
a month ago, and if that separatist women were not claiming the
beginning of the use of shadowing tactics in the same timeframe.
Weren’t certain countries suspiciously avoiding that area for some time after the exercises?
US, UK and France were avoiding the area.
http://adam.curry.com/html/NoAgendaEpisode636Ap-1405886132.html
not a single point in this piece that isn’t common knowledge and reported by US media. what conspiratorial covering-up media is the old fart talking about?
not a single point in this piece that isn’t common knowledge and reported by US media. what conspiratorial covering-up media is the old fart talking about?
Dementia with age. That is Paul.
When you don’t have constructive argument you just start insulting people. No wonder that all this main stream media propaganda is working so good.
Every time I watch or read the news, I get the exact opposite. Maybe Ron Paul needs to tell Alex Jones at infowars to bump-up the coverage. That’s probably the only place he goes for news.
“Is it so hard to simply demand a real investigation?”…why don’t you ask the separatists, AKA Russians, they control the region.
Or maybe the U.S. backed Ukrainian Government threw MREs at the plane.
Fits filled the tree Sunday. Must be a road trip Monday.
It is obvious Obama’s government set the narrative with old social media vids and baseless accusations. He doubled down on Kerry’s bleating today. The old “force their hand” political gambit Obama perfected with Boehnor’s House.
Meanwhile, the cure for HIV/AIDS went down with the plane. The NWO always gets two or three favorable outcomes when they fork with occurrances. Ron always gets 75% of it close but ruins his argument with the final 25%.
The Gulf of Tonkin…only this time it was over land.
Russian paid moron poorly informed and thinks people also are…
Oh I don’t think Ron Paul is poorly informed. I think it’s worse than that.
WHERE ARE THE EYEWITNESSES? Wherever it came from, that rocket must have been heard and seen by 10’s, if not 1000’s of people. Why aren’t they be found and interviewed? They hold the key to the puzzle of who shot down the plane!
They’re using this as a false flag to start war. The US loves war. The Gulf of Tonken, Weapons of Mass Destruction, snooping on citizens, torture… The Untied States really isn’t the “good guys.”
Just like Cheney’s “It had to be Iraq” after 9/11. It probably wasn’t even 9/12.
^^plant
What is the principal evidence that it was in fact shot down?
Real time sat. photo intel
Do you know this for a fact, or are you carrying water for “unnamed sources?”
I worked for a assay office they had a atomic absorption device. That device burned a sample at plasma state. By recording the color at different wave lengths. The ability to calculate what the sample was made of is very accurately possible.
A rocket burns near plasma state. A high quality spectrum recording would enable calculating the composition of the rocket fuel, as well as the rocket engine combustion camber and nozzle.
We currently can calculate composition of light that was produced billions of light year away. This also includes reflected light.
If the military has not used this tec. some military contractors have missed a great money making opportunity.
Dad!!!!! STFU – Jesus!
The one thing that Ran Paul knows that his revered father (well, at least, by me) does not is that America does not live in a vacuum. Kennedy said it best – I watched him say it live on TV (my dad was personally invited to his inauguration, there were only two tickets and Mom got to go). “Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike,
that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans – born
in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter
peace.” He knew we must be so strong that friend and foe would know we back our words with meaningful, sometimes frightening action. But our strength allowed us to do good, because we were, at the very least, and ethical nation. He knew that when America was strong, the world was a better place. It is not a purely libertarian idea, but it is an important idea, because it is true.
well said! love him.
Well, other than the satellite photos of the rocket launch, satellite photos of the Buk missile launcher going back to Russia, phone conversations. *direct admissions* by the Russian GRU officers, there is really not that much evidence. LOL.
Now I see that Ron Paul is Putin’s project aimed to destroy the US. Thanks for this article Ron! I actually used to like him.