… SHOULD WE GO TO WAR?
Russian president Vladimir Putin has been fitted for a black hat in the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine.
Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has point blank accused him of shooting the plane down (killing all 298 passengers and crew), while U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein ratcheted up the tough talk during an appearance on one of the Sunday morning government propaganda organs … err, political talk shows.
“This has become a huge human drama, and I think the nexus between Russia and the separatists has been established very clearly, so the issue is where is Putin?” Feinstein told CNN. “I would say, ‘Putin, you have to man up. You should talk to the world. You should say, if this is a mistake, which I hope it was, say it.'”
Feinstein added “the world has to rise up and say, ‘We’ve had enough of this.'”
Meanwhile current U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is channeling the Dallas Police Department (c. 1963) in placing the blame on Russia for the downed Boeing 777.
“It’s pretty clear that this is a system that was transferred from Russia in the hands of separatists,” Kerry said.
Wow …
Facts be damned, right?
Unable to dupe Americans into supporting a war back in March (after a U.S.-led coup ousted the popularly elected government of Ukraine), the U.S. military-industrial complex is clearly back for another bite at the apple.
Their goal? To launch a new military operation in the region – or, if that doesn’t work, at the very least justify keeping tens of thousands of American troops stationed at military bases throughout Europe (where they have absolutely NO business being stationed).
Seriously … if the world is focused on some crazy Russian running around shooting passenger jets out of the sky, they won’t be focused on tapped out American taxpayers subsidizing the defense of wealthy European countries.
But hey, Putin is the “bad guy …”
Here’s the thing: Even if Vladimir Putin personally orchestrated the downing of Flight 17, does that in any way, shape or form justify an escalation of America’s military presence in Europe? Or should it any way, shape or form rationalize America’s ongoing subsidization of Europe’s defense?
No … and no.
In fact “hell to the no.” To both questions.
Don’t get us wrong: If a foreign leader is found to have killed U.S. citizens (or is engaged in a credible plot to kill U.S. citizens), then the American military should travel to the ends of the earth and greet that leader with the fury of God’s own thunder.
But that’s not what happened here … and no matter how bad the American “War Gods” want a scuffle right now, nothing about the Ukrainian crisis justifies any U.S. intervention.
90 comments
I covered it a few days ago. Nothing really matters, other than what I said about it. You’re just going to try to cover up for Obama’s incompetence: Read: Sound leadership not likely after plane shot down in the Ukraine
Link: http://scdigest.blogspot.com/2014/07/adult-leadership-not-likely-after-plane.html
You’re just droning on about nothing. Your analysis always results in the same excuses, and delusions.
Yeah but at least I don’t have to get hits by trolling another website’s comments section.
Too bad your kindred spirit Al-Gore didn’t give you part-ownership of the Internet when he invented it… LMAO…That free speech, and social media, are a B!*ch, ain’t it…Hahaha…
You do realize the owner of this site can block, delete, or censor your comments if they so choose and it has nothing to do with free speech. Free speech means the government can’t tell you to stop saying something, it does not mean a private company has to give you a medium.
Then what the H#!! are you B*tC#!ng about Dumb@$$?…
I’ve had PMs on the SCPD FB site telling me they come to FITS, to get a link to my site, because they forgot to Bookmark it.
So I’m helping FITS, aside from all the hits I’ve generated for him for years. So to assume I’m gaining, is an ignorant assumption on your part. You must be a Stupid Liberal..frightened of any speech that exposes you as corrupt. What are you so scared of?
You sound like some sort of loose-cannon maniac. Check your blood pressure.
Yeah, can’t have a loose cannon…Obama and the media you suck off may not like that.
You can’t make your puppet masters mad. And can’t make you think for yourselves, either, You may vote non-democrat, if you ever thought something other than the stupid $#!t they feed you Dumb@$$#$…
and you sound like somebody who can’t think of anything productive so you just spew insults….
here is a thought ,if you don’t like what Grand or me or anybody says or thinks instead of insulting how about ignoring??? try being a grown up…..
You’re right! You may have generated a few hits for FITS, but that was back when you were slightly amusing. Now you’re just fucking annoying.
What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
oh didn’t you know??/ its only lib free speech…anything else needs to be monitored…..just another area the libs are major hypocrites about…
It’s you and Obama monitoring American citizens Dumb@$$. I’m not for that, you clueless liberal idiot. I decried Obama for spying on reporters at Fox and using IRS files to persecute Conservatives. You can’t be that stupid, can you?
You know I have to apologize because I totally agree with you & I didn’t read it the right way…so really call me an idiot but please please don’t call me a lib…check my other responses to you. …ugh…:))
——————————
yes Mr. save the earth gore who lives in a house that is as big as a town & uses gas guzzling private planes…..
Are you charging GT an advertising fee?
I’m sure all 2 of your readers appreciate your excellence in journalism. (The two readers are GrandTango’s mom and, of course, GramdTango himself.)
C’mon Smirks, you forgot GT’s alter-ego, the (not real) Emily Peterkin persona.
EMPLOYMENT WANTED
Dear Readers, I have submitted my resignation to Mr. Tango. Even though this will now delay my enrollment at Clemson University, working for Mr. Tango has become an intolerable
situation. Especially so after his horrible limerick about my sister Little Mary Muffett.
Mr. Tango’s brain has achieved such a state that no respectable gumma would ever attach itself to it. He has become a straightforward paranoiac. He suffers first from headache, tinnitus, palpitation, digestive disturbances, and incapacity for mental exertion. After that came intense egotism, selfishness, conceit, overbearing pride, violent temper and moroseness. How do I know this? I was his intern!
Respectfully yours in hope ….. Little Miss Muffett
Let’s assume this was a screwup down the line and not an overt attempt by Putin to subvert Malaysian Airline stocks…
Short term – Russia and The Poot face international scorn. Medium term, Russian gas and oil politics keep western Europe from doing much of anything. Long term, Russia achieves regional hegemony status but not much else.
Willie knows ALL about US foreign policy, at least everything the Paul’s told him to say. My “tens of thousands” of brothers and sisters in Europe say bite my ass
Don’t forget his newest foreign policy guru- Ravenel. Blind leading the blind.
Which would you rather have? A shill for the status quo droning endlessly on like a Catholic prayer.. or a sketching pundit, writing on the down side of a methamphetamine high?
Is that a trick question?
We don’t really get a choice… it’s like asking if you would rather slide down a mile long razor blade in a speedo, or have a round plug removed from your head with a drill attachment, some of your brain removed from the hole, and various and sundry predatory insects(earwigs, ringworms, tapeworms, wasp larvae..etc) poured into the resulting cavity, and the plug replaced?
Or… you could check out some pretty (historically) reliable open-source info on the Russian clowns who are zipping around in the background mucking things up in Ukraine, from Foreign Policy:
http://theweek.com/article/index/264719/this-spy-agency-is-putins-secret-weapon
The ignorant leading the gullible.
Obama may award him America’s Medal of Freedom. We have a moron in the White House and lazy infidel American citizens supporting him.
exactly right… lazy & uninformed .this time last year I wonder how many people here even knew who Putin was,then he smacks down Obama, takes away the leadership of the world from the American president for the first time ever & now Obama kills 2 birds with 1 stone,,,getting back at Putin for the humiliation & giving the country a Russian villain so we don’t pay too much attention to the latest blunder coming from the worst admin ever……the only thing that can give you some hope is that even with glossing over every disaster ,Obama’s approval rating is in the gutter….so if he wasn’t busy saving us from the Russians it would be in single digits..
There’s just as good a chance that Ukranian rebels, US supported, shot the airliner down…which is politically expedient for the US war machine.
But then that would mean we are the bad guys, or at least support the bad guys. That can’t be. Murika good, other guy bad.
I’m thinking “we” don’t think in terms of “good” and “bad” anymore. Our new “family value” is “pragmatism.”
and you know what that means.. whoopie!
What?
I think he’s saying we don’t have the facts – just unsubstantiated statements and “news stories.”
And, showing how ignorant the Paulites are
They’re just pragmatists, nitrat…. trying to fit the facts to the policy. if they don’t have enough facts, they “allege” a few, and “unnamed source” a couple more, and if that still doesn’t do it, they’ll “intelligence official” up a few advanced satellite detections.
Finally, when all else fails, they’ll send out a patriotic dupe with a good reputation with a couple of visual props, some grainy photos, and an “intelligence report” containing independently verifiable facts, vetted by his truly but unavailable for the media to protect the liars on the payroll, that provides “evidence” that whatever they want to be, is true.
“I think he’s saying we don’t have the facts – just unsubstantiated statements and “news stories.”
That is correct, and despite my agreement with Ron Paul on the simple state of unsubstantiation, it doesn’t mean that I’m a “Paulite”.
Yeah, I know… I take “think first” over “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran” or “threaten them, they won’t call your bluff!” wherever I can get it. Too bad it often takes a clown, kook, paranoid, anarchist, stoner or conspiracy theorist to resist the herd.
Ummmm, the rebels are Russia supported and were the ones that shot down the plane.
The original rebels are the separatist groups(US supported), but I should have been more clear as the “rebels” are the original remnants of the Russia friendly governments.
Ummmmmm where you there? Or are you still mad at Putin for spanking Obama in public & becoming more important than obama
..the first time in American history. ..
“Assume”
Liberals like Hillary and Feinstein love sounding like hawks when they know there is no possibility that the US will go to was against Russia.
Mid-terms later this year. It’s all about the votes.
Tell her to think again….
What about McCain ,Graham ,Ayotte?
Hell what about the whole damn REPUBLICAN caucus in the House and Senate save for Rand Paul and two or three others?
This “act” that you Republicans are some kind of “peace” party is getting old.
Obama is the one talking about wars everywhere….obam’weakness has effected the entire world.
Typical brain dead teanut. Watching Fox and listening to Rush and Beck today huh.
don’t you ever,ever get tired of the insults, the Rush, beck, Fox……blah blah blah….the name calling??/
you seem so angry,just disagree, ignore, who cares but you work yourself up & I couldn’t care less what you say about me…
libs always insult,,,its all they do….
BTW, I have never listened to beck in my life, but I did hear him say on a talk show that he hated Putin & wished he would die so you might have to change up the talking points & take beck out of the rush, fox, beck thing …..
“I have never listened to beck in my life, but I did hear him on a talk show. . . . .??”
Don’t you ever get tired of the insults? . . .
“Hilary is upset because Putin finds her repulsive..
Feinstein is upset because she repulses herself.”
As I said typical brain dead Teanut. I can dish it out but don’t turn it back on me.
let me me TRY to explain what you seem to have difficulty understanding….I have never listened to HIS show , I heard this comment on another show,I never said I haven’t heard his voice…ok??/ not too difficult ,right??
As far as the “insults” Hilary & Feinstein are PUBLIC figures ,they put themselves out there,part of the program ,like all of you bashing Putin all the time…that’s alittle different than insulting people you know nothing about.because they don’t agree with you…
I have no problem with it “turning back on me”, I am on a public forum & that comes with the territory ..sorry you have so much anger you use your time to continue to insult a person you could just ignore which is what I intend to do with you
Yes..all military acts are accepted as long as its a lib pres…
Hilary is upset because Putin finds her repulsive..
Feinstein is upset because she repulses herself…
I suspect most men and women find you repulsive.
hmmm… would that make them less repulsive??
If the USA could restrain itself back in 1983 when a Soviet Union military jet shot down Korean Air Lines flight 007 (New York-Anchorage-Seoul), killing 269 people of which 62 were American citizens. I am sure that the same USA can keep itself in order after this incident.
I’m sorry, what “… facts [should] be damned…” in you earlier post that you referenced? We still really don’t have a lot of public facts at this point though I’m willing to be our European missile defense organization knows exactly where the SAM was launched from and probably by whom.
The only “fact” in you post was that a plane had been shot down.
——–
oh? Really? Is that a “fact” already?
Well, now that you mention it, Malaysia Air Lines is “missing” another plane…
Now *that* seems to be a verifiable fact. The rest of this stuff is made out of disparate pieces of information from completely unreliable sources whose reputation and integrity has no credibility whatsoever.
A grand jury would have trouble finding a second verifiable fact in the sewage spewing out of this latest Deepwater Horizon.
It’s not missing, its scattered across the landscape in eastern Ukraine, not far from the Russian border.
No, the “other plane” EJB – the one they lost in the Indian Ocean. MAL Flight 370 went missing four months ago. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/future-of-malaysia-airlines-in-flux/
If I assume that then want Europe armed to the teeth and Putin in a noose,
Russia is already in the international doghouse through clever media manipulation by the West. Russia would not stand to gain if they shot it down. As a matter of fact, it would be a perfect excuse to bring NATO or the IMF into the Ukraine; not what Putin wants.
Yes no reason for Putin to do this. .like he wants this kind of attention? ? Putin has been made the villain and that’s that…
If that were true, I’d have to ask the really hard questions:
“Is Elvis Presley really dead?”
followed by
“Is Bruce Lee frozen hard as a carp in a silo out in Kansas somewhere, ready to be thawed out as a secret weapon?”
and
“Are sasquatch tracks real, or are they bear tracks, with the hind paw landing on the back half of the front paw track?”
Of course sasquatches are real, haven’t you seen those “Messin’ with Sasquatch”
commercialsdocumentaries?A recent sighting of Sasquatch reported seeing “warbles” where the Sasquatch was.. “like in the movie Predator”
Sasquatch is upping its game!
Actually, I thought I sighted her in 5 Points about 3.30am Saturday morning — she was wearing a short red skirt and penny loafers. When I asked if I could buy her a drink, well, I swear that she growled at me!
I heard recently that a squatch was re-joining the cast of ‘The View’
“…are they bear tracks, with the hind paw landing on the back half of the front paw track?”
Ya’ know, they could be his balls dragging on the ground…
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
I sorry are we discussing the Republican Party now or are we still taking about the airline?
You do know to what I am referring but feel free to turn it into whatever fallacious parable suits your purpose (your M.O.).
Well yes I am quite familiar with quote from Mr. Niemoller, but not sure how it relates to this article. Though it does appear to match up very well with the Republican Party Platform. We would need to substitute Gays, Muslims and Hispanics for Jews (although after the departure of Eric Cantor there will not be one single Republican in the House or Senate who is Jewish.)
Award winning former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry…
Why do you mention Parry?
The only people who are beating the drum for war – or, for what sure sounds like it – are the usual suspects: Lindsey Graham and John McCain, Republicans.
If you really want to see war, then withdraw US troops from Europe. Never in US history has a foreign country that the US has based troops in during peace in that country been attacked.
To be fair, US troops have only been peacefully living in other countries since we got nukes.
To be fair, US troops have only been peacefully living in other countries since we got nukes.
———————————–
That is still a seventy year record and factoring in nukes only strengthens my argument. No NATO country has ever been attacked by a foreign country except Great Britain by Argentina in the Falklands.
It is a lot cheaper to station troops than to wage war. At least two wars probably would have been prevented had the US stationed troops in Kuwait and South Korea.
To bolster your argument further, in 2009 Obama canceled the European Missile Defense program, shocking NATO allies and leaving them with the same rotten taste in their mouths as when the Western Powers sold them out once before in the Munich Agreement. And then in his debate with Romney, Obama sat there ridiculing the idea that Putin is still a threat with imperialist ambitions, making a complete fool of himself, but I believe that is what he really thought and with his crack team of sloppy graduate students in the state department and Samatha Power the idiot telling him that Russia is no threat, continue on to your fundraisers–well, here we are. Completely predictable. BT, you are correct. Now Jews are fleeing France and horrific anti-semitism from its immigrant population in numbers not seen since the founding of the state of Israel in 1948. European nations not on the verge of bankruptcy are overrun with non-working immigrants. Are they going to serve in European armies if called? No way. Now Obama is asking for another billion or two to throw at the problem he created, walking back yet another administration policy that sounded good on paper to him but is a total catastrophe once implemented.
Ever hear of South Korea, 1950?
There were no US troops in S. Korea when it was invaded.
Actually, there were US forces in Korea – U.S. Korean Military Advisory Group (KMAG) was already present on the peninsula training the South Korean Army and attempting (unsuccessfully) to keep an eye on the North Koreans, KMAG’s commander was General W. L. Roberts.
Two weeks before the shooting started, Roberts opined “…KMAG is a living demonstration of how an intelligent and intensive investment of 500 combat-hardened American men and officers can train 100,000 guys who will do the shooting for you… In Korea the American taxpayer has an army that is a fine watchdog over investments placed in this country and a force that represents the maximum results at the minimum cost…”
Prescient wasn’t he? (not)
Great post, Colonel.
Did not know this, but before the invasion, Korea was not included in the strategic Asian Defense Perimeter outlined by Secretary of State Acheson. We had no treaty obligation with S. Korea and had withdrawn combat forces in 1949. Although they participated in the fighting, I don’t know if they would be considered troops stationed in the country since they were advisors.
bullshit. you have no idea what the term ‘point blank’ means. there is no quote anywhere that accuses putin of ‘orchestrating’ the attack.
I’m sure Putin is just shaking in his boots… he has Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, AND Diane Feinstein up set with him.
If those three misanthropes were upset with ME, then I would say it’s been a good day!
Putin enjoys toying with those idiots & knows he will always get the last laugh…
can’t figure out which of the 4, I am including Obama , has the biggest mancrush on Putin….
yeah & who is the more manly of the 3?? hard to tell really….
what was the story ..Putin kept Kerry waiting for 3 hours??? I would have kept him waiting for 3 days……
now we will get the Putin is rude comments….:)