THE “FAMOUSLY HOT” CITY’S MOST INFAMOUS MYSTERY …
On this day in 1865, Union forces under the command of major general William Tecumseh Sherman captured the city of Columbia, S.C. – and burned a sizable portion of it to the ground.
Or did they?
In his 1999 book Lies Across America, author James W. Loewen disputes this version of history – the one that’s still plastered on monuments all over the Southern city. Citing research by historians Marion Lucas and James Rhoads, Loewen concludes that the main fire which destroyed roughly a third of the city was accidental – the result of wind rekindling cotton fires set previously by retreating Confederate troops.
In fact according to Loewen’s account, union troops actually helped to contain the conflagration.
Confederate loyalists bristle at such “revisionist history.”
“The responsibility lies totally and completely with General William Tecumseh Sherman,” a website devoted to Confederate general Wade Hampton states plainly.
As evidence, the site refers to an entry in Sherman’s journal in which he acknowledges framing Hampton for the blaze.
“In my official report of this conflagration I distinctly charged it to General Wade Hampton, and confess I did so pointedly to shake the faith of his people in him, for he was in my opinion a braggart and professed to be the special champion of South Carolina,” Sherman wrote.
The site also quotes an account in which one of Sherman’s commanding generals – Oliver Otis Howard – stated that “it is useless to deny that our troops burnt Columbia, for I saw them in the act.”
It also quotes The (Columbia, S.C.) State newspaper – which concluded a century later that “responsibility rested upon Sherman and his men.”
Indeed Union troops did set several fires during their occupation of Columbia – most notably the destruction of the Gibbes House. But were these fires responsible for the larger blaze that consumed so much of the city? Or did that larger blaze originate from the cotton fires set by Confederates?
We may never know for sure, although the damage to these landmarks is obviously not up for debate …
(Click to enlarge)
What else is likely to remain a mystery? How much of Columbia was actually burned …
The S.C. Confederate Relic Room and Museum claims that more than eighty percent of the city was destroyed, although Loewen refers to this government-funded entity as “the least accurate museum operated by a state government anywhere in the United States.”
Ouch …
Don’t get us wrong: This website is by no means sympathetic to the federal government … then or now. Don’t believe us? Look no fruther than the fact we have seriously entertained secession (although not the sort that precipitated the “late unpleasantness,” mind you).
Past or present ideologies aside, the historical question simply fascinates us …
What do you think? Cast your vote in our poll and post your thoughts in our comments section below …
221 comments
Nevertheless, the South will Rise Again!
Does that mean we should all invest in Dixie Cups? ;)
Damn MF Skippy :-D
So Dixie cups and peanut butter too?
That’s Georgia son. Get with the program. COTTON IS KING
Frank – I’m gonna run out of money before I get all this stuff, Dixie Cups, Peanut Butter and Cotton – anything else?
–RC Cola with Moon Pies
–Coca Cola with peanuts
–Dr Pepper with grilled cheese sandwiches
RC Cola and a moon pie – just two of the many things that make my “45 or so and a wake up” bearable…
I didn’t say peanut butter, you did brother. I said COTTON.
Re reading your post, you should probably invest in Baretta
You said Skippy – I assumed you meant the peanut butter. What the devil is Baretta? You talking about buying DVDs of the old Robert Blake show? “Don’t do the crime if you can pay the time…”
Tango drinks from Dick see cups when he wants to save my sperm for later.
Even Viagra can’t achieve that!
Yes, when the liberals take over.
Naw: Sherman was just on a camping trip w/ some armed buddies, and stopped in for a friendly visit to Columbia..He did not mean to do any harm. The raping, murdering, theft and fire was purely coincidental.
FITS is about as an easily-led (by liberals) F*#k as there is. FITS is why we elect candidates like Lindsay Graham or Mark Sanford as a staunch Conservative, and we get a watered-down version of John McCain or Chris Christy.
These idiots like FITS will believe anything some Dumb@$$ tells them, because FITS so loathes himself, and his home. Liberals are bad to $#!* in their own nest, if it’s not leftwing, radical, like those they admire…..
Tell us how, exactly, the South was punished worse than Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany. Interesting that you make that association between those three things, by the way.
The feds dropped “the bombs” here, doncha know!
They did intentionally set fire to the old wooden state house by firing “hot shot” from across the river.
I know that. It was war. This crap happens in war. Both sides are responsible for the burnings, whether Sherman started the fires of not.
So intentionally burning a church or government building is justifiable during war – glad you don’t teach Law of Land Warfare (I do and both are generally verboten).
Isn’t ironic though that you teach rules of who & how you kill in war?
I mean, it’s pretty tough to enforce practically don’t you think?
The Redcoats claimed the Rebels fought dishonorably by not standing in rows to be mowed down….The Geneva convention said mustard/nerve gas was too barbaric in WW1, but Napalm/being friend alive was ‘ok’.
lol….isn’t there a ridiculousness set around the whole notion of killing “fairly”?
edit: “fried”
Total war is a nasty thing. Brutal but effective. But even fighting a total war does not mean you need to burn down homes and businesses. Sherman’s troops did not burn down Columbia for some strategic reason. Rather, they burned it out of spite — to punish us for having the nerve to leave the Union.
Perzactly –
Sherman’s letter of warning to the Atlanta City Council: “…You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out…”
“But even fighting a total war does not mean you need to burn down homes and businesses.”
Tell that to Nagasaki & Hiroshima.
Its arguable that such collateral damage was necessary in order to shorten the war. To bomb Japan into submission, there were going to be innocent casualties.
Burning Columbia, however, was not collateral damage. It was directed damage designed to punish the birthplace of the Confederacy.
“Its arguable that such collateral damage was necessary in order to shorten the war.”
Bro, normally I like your commentary…but you missed where Sherman and his generals made the exact argument made for Nagasaki/Hiroshima. (and I don’t think it was necessary to A-bomb them to avoid land invasion, I just think the sociopaths wanted to see the scientists handy work and send a message to the rest of the world…much like your theory at the end of the above statement)
To be fair, I don’t know enough about the history of the bombings in Nagasaki/Hiroshima to truly know whether they were needed or not. This is why I wanted to include the word “arguable” because I’m not informed enough about that decision.
I liken it to an abused wife trying to leave her husband.
I’m not justifying anything. War is war and these things do happen and are happening now. There is no “gentlemen’s” war. Never has been.
Yeah – once again, I’m glad you just get to pontificate and others of us are actually charged with fighting these things.
Bless your heart.
And soldier, too.
That’s Soldier and yes, I’ve been a Soldier since 1982 and though I’ll be forced to retire next summer, I’ll be a Soldier until the day I die.
…Yankees not withstanding
So intentionally burning a church or government building is justifiable during war
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http://books.google.com/books?id=5A35MmWXvEAC&pg=PA300&lpg=PA300&dq=bombing+residential+areas+in+Iraq+war&source=bl&ots=xVimw5LSkn&sig=VAs5Xdrcfvp1AFRon9R3r7n80O8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yC0CU_6UCuXN2wX0kICQBw&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=bombing%20residential%20areas%20in%20Iraq%20war&f=false
Intentional vice accidental Euwe – I know you know the difference.
was it an accident when they dropped a bomb on a restaurant they thought Saddam was seated in? Or white phosphorous in barricaded Fallujah? Or dogs and torture in Abu Ghraib? Or shooting reporters from helicopter gunships?
White phosphorus is a lawful weapon when used as an incendiary device i.e. aimed at a target (human or not) with the intent to start a fire or provide an obscurant. It is not lawful to use as a chemical weapon – my opinion is that the shit is scary as hell and should never be used for anything.
Abu Ghraib – complete utter idiocy and last I looked, all of the participants went to jail and the folks in charge were relieved (with one notable exception and she got hers in the end)
Targeting Saddam – which time are we talking about?
Helicopters and reporters – I assume you’re talking about Baghdad 2007? The whole shooting reporters from helicopters is the subject of much debate and demonstrates the danger of hanging around with the wrong guys in time of war (Ernie Pyle – the father of modern combat journalism was killed in the Okinawa campaign during WWII). I frankly don’t know enough about the investigation to comment beyond saying it looks like the pilots should not have engaged Namir Noor-Eldeen and Saeed Chmagh.
oh, and it’s not vice accidental Euwe.. it’s vice ‘admiral’ Euwe!
You’ve had a busy few years..work at BCBSSC, teach classes at USC, teach high school students, and now some “law of land warfare” (I have no idea where you might teach that in SC. Didn;t you also say something once about doing IT work? What haven’t you done? Carpentry? Plumbing? Rocket Science?
I own a small remodeling business as well. I left BCBS in 1999. I don’t teach in high schools. I recruit in high schools – it’s part of what I do at the university as is teaching a history class. One of my many Reserve jobs over the last 25 years was to instruct a number of ethics courses including what we refer to as “The Law of Land Warfare”. Every Soldier gets a block every year.
And yeah, I’m as busy as a one legged man at an ass kicking contest most of the time – the only reason I have time to fool around with you is that it’s 7 pm here and I’m done for the day.
Truly a renaissance man.
Hardly – I do get to have a hell of a lot of fun at the taxpayers expense though.
So, is Grand Tango. Might be the same.
Remember, there were millions and millions of Renaissance Men. Only a few were worth a shit.
Sorry, Chevy II. Government buildings are el primo targets. Church buildings not so much, unless you remember the Alamo.
From the actual 1938 convention:
I. Recognizes the following principles as a necessary basis for any subsequent regulations:
1) The intentional bombing of civilian populations is illegal;
2) Objectives aimed at from the air must be legitimate military objectives and must be identifiable;
3) Any attack on legitimate military objectives must be carried out in such a way that civilian populations in the neighbourhood are not bombed through negligence;
Under the convention, unless the building were fortified and/or being used for military operations it is a forbidden target. The Pentagon might be a legitimate target, the Capital would not be.
As a practice the US does not generally target purely governmental buildings. This isn’t altruism but rather practicality – It’s kind of hard to restart a legitimate gubamint when there’s absolutely no infrastructure. We learned that lesson in post WWII Berlin.
Our targeting is done using a 3 rule test;
1. necessity – do we need to kill this target to accomplish our objectives
2. distinction – can we clearly identify and kill this target without unnecessarily endangering civilians and non combatants
3. proportionality – they blew up a car bomb on a military base so we don’t nuke a city, we destroy their military base.
I keep thinking of that air raid shelter filled with Iraqi women and children that we penetrated with bombs. Our target ID claim? “It had a bunch of communication wires going to it.”
Then there was the Iranian civilian airliner.
And Afghan weddings.
And most of all, the carpet and nuclear bombing of civilian cities. Sure, there may have been some legitimate targets within the cities, but would, say, a USMC recruiting office, or FBI office, or CIA front, or AIPAC office in the WTC buildings have justified their downing while full of civilians.?
We–like others–are a lot more casual about targeting than we seem to claim to be.
The cities in WWII, of course.
So 70 years ago? Carpet or saturation bombing was a necessary evil when you build your factories in cities surrounded by civilian buildings. The Germans actually started it with the Condor Legion in Spain – we just perfected it. It’ll never happen again, it wasn’t terribly effective then and now we have the technology to literally send the bomb in through a window.
The “Afghan weddings” were almost never weddings.
The Iranian Air Flt 655 shoot down was the result of an over zealous boat captain, not a national policy. We actually paid reparations on that one.
I may have missed it but when was the last time we “carpet bombed” anything?
you’d think it was a war, or something! [still whining after all these years plays in the background]
I didn’t hear a wail of tears rise up to heaven from South Carolina when those Marines raped that 14 year old girl in Iraq, burned her and killed her family.
I seem to recall that the Marines in question were not Marines but Soldiers are all doing time for their crime.
The Pieces of Shit in Question here are: Paul E. Cortez, James P. Barker, Jesse V. Spielman, Brian L. Howard and Steven D. Green. The first 4 are in Leavenworth and the last one (Green) was discharged before the crime came to light – he was tried as a civilian and is now in federal prison.
You are correct.. My sincere apologies to the Marine Corps. They were soldiers, not Marines.
Steven Green killed himself in prison today.
TODAY? You’re fucking KIDDING ME!!!
I’m going to have to cut my LSD doses in HALF!
Here’s the story: http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/18/us/soldier-steven-green-suicide/index.html
I don’t have time to educate you dumb@$$, racist liberals.
You are still singing the praises of Obamacare, so I doubt you’d get it if I taught you.
Suffice it to say, the US built back West Germany and Japan. The South suffered for a century after the democrat slave owners were defeated. And those of us who had NOTHING to do w/ slavery were punished, as if we did.
We really did not begin to prosper until we ridded the democrats from power.
I don’t have time to educate you dumb@$$, racist liberals.
——-
I *know*, right? I don’t think these people know how difficult it is for a God-fearing Christian to come up with a whole day’s worth of dick-sucking metaphors.
You sure are filthy. Are you a homosexual? most of the male homosexuals I know, are very vulgar.
You’re the one continually talking about dick sucking and you are beyond vulgar. Therefore, you are homosexual. Taaa daaaa!
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!
You sure are filthy. Are you a homosexual? most of the male homosexuals I know, are very vulgar
=====
Sorry you missed the post where I indicated I was straight… I take no offense, and I guess I’m a little flattered that you would consider me in the same category as your vulgar friends… I’m not judging you.. whatever it takes to trip your trigger.
You used to like it when I was vulgar. You get pretty vulgar too, yelling, “come in my mouth”, and, “blow a load up my ass now”.
Tango I want you to know that I am still very hurt by your comment that you sucking my dick was only metaphorical. You owe me an apology and some good makeup sex.
So why are all these homosexuals sucking your dick? Metaphorical( of course) ;)
How many homosexuals do you know?
In b4 pleads the fifth.
FALSE! The U.S. did not build back Japan. Japan did that itself with the money it stole from the countries it invaded during WWII.
Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany didn’t have to put up with GrandTango.
There were no rapings, pillaging, or war crimes committed, either.
These are not the droids you are looking for.
War is a matter of slapping one’s enemy’s face with an immaculate white glove.
But as has been stated..that war has been over a looong time. Why try to change history now?
To help elect southern tea party members?
I’m missing the joke here I think…How could blaming the burning of Columbia on its defenders help out the T Party?
It’s not funny that the tea party is populist at the lowest level, and follows the negative emotions wherever they lead. Our own, personal Likud party.
Likud/Tea Party, Great comparison. Both are dedicated to keeping their country free. The Tea Party could use a leader like Netanyahu . In the current world there are only two world leaders Putin and Netanyahu. The USA has lost the world leader status since W left office.
Likud/Tea Party, Great comparison.
——-
Thanks. I credit a life of hard drugs, loose women and clear thinking.
Norma, Norma, Norma – don’t provoke him we he goes off on a deep end tangent.
Norma, chill, history is written by the people that won the war. A Heart, is the victor in the end. We fought aginst the US government. Thier GREED wil sucumbe them !
You’ve missed the point of Mr. Moh. It’s all about the hyperbole.
It’s not about actual points, but emotion.
Revisionist History!
SC is like that Japanese soldier found on an island in the 70’s, who didn’t know WWII was over.
And people get really, really pissed off when you tell them that the South lost.
So pissed, they’d rather fuck themselves than allow logic to infiltrate their politics.
Pretty much.
Is it really? Cause I’ve lived here 12 years and I think 99% of the population is well aware.
Just because SC was stomped into the ground and set back economically for 100 years doesn’t mean the many of the issues(not all) have changed-but it’s quite clear that SC lost to most of the population here.
The simple fact is that “might makes right” doesn’t always resolve structural issues.
Whether DC should control everything it sees with an iron fist will always be up for debate for those outside of its power center.
If DC wants to end the debate, then it will have to completely wipe out those outside of its locale…much more dramatically than they did in the South…like Indian style for complete pacification. Or maybe even better going back to your example, Hiroshima/Nagasaki style.
Our “greatest” Presidents seem to also have the greatest number of skulls piled up at their feet, so there’s precedent.
SC is set back socially and intellectually a hundred years, for sure. For the rest of the country, the “debate” ended 150 years ago.
“For the rest of the country, the “debate” ended 150 years ago.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/17/secession-movement-in-new-york-pushes-for-big-appl/
I know many people would like it to be, but it simply isn’t. You’ve got all sorts of movements going on, Colorado, the U.P. of Michigan, etc.
Economic misery always brings instability. Sure, the debate is mostly localized and not Federally driven(yet), but the concept remains.
I always liked Shelby Foote’s take on that. It isn’t that the South doesn’t know it lost the war, it is that the South is the one part of the US that has a personal relationship with defeat. That defeat kept going and going generation after generation from Sherman to the Boll Weevil to civil rights to Eugenics to basic health to well, everything.
The only thing left that can’t be labeled as proto-Nazi is music and food and the music was stolen from Africa and the food will kill you. So two more helpings of defeat.
So what option is left other than being the kid at the back of the class punching himself in the head while screaming “I’m a retarded Nazi!” over and over again?
Well said!
The SC hate for you two is interesting, you’d think with 49 choices available to the two of you that you’d be motivated to move to greener pastures.
I’m not talking about SC specifically. The south demands that it be the moral whipping boy for the rest of the nation. We pointlessly doom ourselves to the point that the rest of the country just assumes that anything southern has a touch of evil to it. Do you ever get tired of that? I do.
I bet you could make the argument in the north that boiled peanuts are racist peanuts and people would buy that idea. Why? Because we’d be the first people in line to try to prove them right.
“Hells yeah! No one can tell me I can’t like racist peanuts and you can’t tell me anything different! Who cares if we called ’em boiled peanuts last week! Racist peanuts forever! C’ain’t change that! Wooooo!”
Your finger on the pulse is exact.
S.C. (as does much of the South) suffers from willful and obstinate ignorance. We know there are better options out there, but to accept them and move on into modern society would be tantamount to admitting we were wrong all along. We doom ourselves out of spite. Hence why we constantly rank at the bottom of all the 50 states.
I luike that comment
The scholars Lowen cites used first person accounts and other primary sources, and they came up with an hour by hour account of the burning. Sherman burned some, the Confederates burned some (as was policy! so as not to leave ammo for the Yankees!) and the wind did the rest. Union troops did help to put out the blaze, which was contained as soon as the wind died down. It’s a great book. The people who don’t care about historical truth are the REAL revisionists. http://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Burning-Columbia-Marion-Lucas/dp/1570033587/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392648819&sr=8-1&keywords=burning+of+columbia
Lowen writes well and he is compelling however, he ignores an equal number of primary sources, including Sherman’s own troops, who lay he majority of the blame at Sherman and Company’s feet.
There is no doubt that the retreating Confederate forces also own some of the blame.
+1. It is nice to hear from someone who appreciates nuance!
Wow, really slow news day hunh? There is no doubt that Sherman bears the majority of the brunt of responsibility for the burning of Columbia. His men intentionally burned several key buildings that spread the fire throughout the city.
As for how much was burnt, that’s a fairly easy assessment. Go here for a contemporary picture taken from the unfinished State House steps and decide for yourself: http://historicalcolumbia.com/columbia-sc-ruins.html At the time Columbia ran from the river in the west to roughly the edge of the Harden Street in the East and what we know as Elmwood in the north, very little would have been found south of Devine. Contemporary pictures taken by any number of photographers show nearly complete devistation.
It appears that many in SC think the civil war is still raging. They didn’t learn a damned thing the first time and are on course to repeat their original disaster. Bless their hearts.
It appears that many in SC think the civil war is still raging. They didn’t learn a damned thing the first time and are on course to repeat their original disaster. Bless their hearts.
It was Obama who told his idiots to vote for REVENGE..you ignorant fence-post.
Dumbass, dickless, hate machine.
You don’t know that… he might have a dick.. I mean, what else could explain his fixation on dick-sucking… er.. uh..”metaphors?”
Having a dick doesn’t mean he is a man.
let’s not too fine a point on how big a dick he is.
It really isn’t that big, but that’s okay. I’m more of a giver than a receiver.
Not to liberals anyways.
He’s had my dick more times than I can count. You could say that he has a dick, even if he lost his.
Stop encouraging him. He only feeds off this stuff.
Better than feeding off the vapid, bull$#!* that feeds idiots like you….
Feedn off, don’t you mean Sucking off?
I think GrandTango must be freshly heartbroken. Probably by a liberal wymmyn. There’s just so much obvious pain in his postings.
Real classy lady, you are.
You remind me of many liberal women I know. Most liberal women I know are either divorced because they have a hard time w/ personal relationships, and/or substance abuse and fidelity.
And the ones who have gov’t jobs enough to support a liberal man, they treat him like he is a woman…because he wants to be…in either case, these women would not know a man w/ male parts, if they saw one.
You know, I kind of agree with you in a weird way. When do I get my honorary trailer?
Anyway, I’m pretty sure SCBlueWoman is a lesbo, so there’s that.
I wouldn’t classify her as a lesbo. Just saying.
Bi-curious perhaps?
North 1, South 0 Half time.
!
I actually bothered to read a couple books making the same claim, that retreating rebels set the blaze – either accidentally or to keep supplies from falling to the Yanks. I love historical accounts, no matter what the truth is. However, each book relied almost exclusively on the testimony of Yankee officers and Generals. What would you expect them to say?
Their accounts told tales of amazing generosity by Yankee troops saving rebel civilians, homes and possessions. It read like a fair tale.
Knowing that Sherman burned a path through the South, why would we believe he suddenly did not burn Columbia and that he acutely saved it?
Also note the authors are all Yanks too.
The Southern Gentleman’s contribution to particle physics and computer science.
Is there really anything better than boiled peanuts and a beer?
Dr. Charles Townes, inventor of the LASER, is a native son of Greenville, SC…peanut.
Particle physics and computer science don’t depend on LASERs.
We should fight the civil war again, only this time – winner take all!
Whoever wants it can have Columbia, Aiken, Myrtle Beach, Orangeburg, Florence, Gafney and Spartanburg.
I’d agree with you on O’burg and Spartanburg. Shoot, I’d help’em pack it if they promise to be gone by dark.
But – But But – the GrandTurnip and everyone else who lives on Bub Schumpert Road in Pelion might secede and claim neutrality..!!
I meant kill them all this time.
Given the corrupt nature of Columbia’s politicians and their minions, Sherman needs to come back and finish the job.
Sherman = Keyser Soze!
Guess what, he’s comming back, and we’ll all pay more, including you numbnut!
Gen Short-Stuff Eckstrom, granddaddy to Comptroller Gen Short WEE WEE Eckstrom, set the place on fire. He was huddled up with a bottle of booze and big bobbyed beard when he passed out, dropped a doobie on a piss stained mattress, and history was written.
Love it!!!
FITS is still debating the Civil War, and who burned Columbia.
Is it any wonder we still have Dumb@$$#$ who are telling us Obamacare is a good idea, that will cost less and provide better coverage?
A lot of people are so stupid they deserve the federal gov’t we have. But why do those of us who are not that ignorant or lazy have to suffer because of them???
Please apologize so I can get back to packing your fudge the way you like it.
Looking at some of those pics, it doesn’t look like much of Columbia has been improved since then. Is that Dentsville?
No, it’s Detroit, you liberal, failed Dumb@$$….
^^^Lives in Dentsville
Lives in 1980 Ronald Mc Donald land.
Get a clue, Tango. SC is now a wasetland for corruption and faggots like you!
The hateful, racist slave-holders are now in Washington DC, in the White House.
We fought democrat slave-owners to free blacks. And with the GOP in power, we even ridded many of them from our gov’t, so the South now prospers more than the bigoted, backward north.
And even though we gave so much for THEIR freedom, we still have racists like Obama, Rev. Wright and Jim Clyburn boldly using their racism and hatred to fuel their idiot voters, and rob the earners and protectors of the US Constitution…
We’ve had to fight for our land before…how much longer before we have to go to war again, against the freedom-hating thieves and racists of the democrat party???
Clean up on aisle six. Brains all over the floor. Clean up on aisle six.
You cannot dispute what I contend…is that why you are trying to deflect from the content?…
Liberals and idiots HATE the truth…and you actually think no one can see you running from what you are.
The truth slapped you up beside the head and you still didn’t get it. I’m not running from being a wonderful liberal woman. I’m also not buying your hateful lying bullshit either. You hate the truth with all that you’ve got. How is that working for you?
You are a Dumb@$$. Do you know that?..
Or do you not see that the more you post, the easier it is to see that you really don’t have a reliable thought in your head, other than the clichés and myths, your gods at the DNC and Obama campaign feed you, and idiots like you???
When I see your posts, all I see is WAAAAAAA-WAAAAA-WAAAAA; Dumb@$$, and hate up to your eyeballs. Bless your unoriginal, angry white man gone ass.
That’s what I’ve come to expect from you. Thanks for playing.
My expectations will never be low enough to consider your posts.
Slave holders in Washington? You’re a funny one…
What does General Glenn McConnell say..??
Why isn’t Glenda an Admiral in the Confederate Submarine Forces?
ooops! That wasn’t clear because I added the link later. It should read —
What does General Glenn McConnell say about the burning of Columbia?
Glenda has already spent $50+ million of federal and state money on the Hunley, so he really should be a CSA admiral.
Glenda avoided serving his country in Viet Nam by going to law school, where he served himself.
He reenacts Civil War battles with “blanks” in his musket.
He’s the only local reenactor with a custom-built brass CSA replica cannon.
It shoots “blanks” too.
Americans burned Columbia.
In anticipation of General Sherman’s troops entering Columbia, Leroy Dupree GrandTango purchased fire insurance on his his wagon. The agent tried to sell him theft insurance, but Leroy Dupree was not to be fooled. “Who would want to steal a burning wagon?”
excellent post
best post of 2014 henry
Thank you (head bowing)….GT just needed another dig! As they say, the nut doesn’t fall far from the tree.
A fun, short book on it: http://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Burning-Columbia-Marion-Lucas/dp/1570033587
It deals less with who did it and more with what happened and how people dealt with it. In the end that is more interesting anyway.
I think it really shows how important it is to have firefighters as a public service, too.
I blame Bush. Or maybe it was Global Warming. I’m not sure…
I was in the State House lower level one morning as a tour group was being given a history lesson by an attractive young lady… what made me stop was overhearing her tell our “guests” that local citizens had started the fire that burned our city. As the group started to move on, I approached her and asked about the version of history she was sharing. She explained that she had always been taught that Sherman had burned Columbia, but “they” had instructed her and the other tour guides to tell visitors that local citizens had started the fire in order not to offend anyone. I am not sure who “they” are … but I would like them to know that someone was offended…..me.
I’m sure many have heard the oft repeated tale that Washington’s statue on the front steps was broken by brick throwing Yankees – it was actually broken when it was installed, well after the end of the (un)Civil War.
Check your sources there, Colonel. The statue’s walking cane was indeed broken off by Union troops. At the time it was being stored inside the partially completed building. The broken cane was subsequently restored, only to be broken off again by a pistol shot fired by the drunken governor, Cole Blease, in the early 1900’s.
thats ridiculous, Tillman shot it not Blease, and the washington statue was in the Charleston orphanage until after Sherman burned and moved towards Wilmington. William Gilmore Simms wrote that troops brick batted the front, the cane was broken during installation by a drunk laborer
Gentlemen, with all due respect, it’s a can on a statue.
There might be more worth discussions.
Like I said, an oft repeated story that bears little truth…
i should not have said ridiculous, but i did a ton of research on every building and statue on the campus for a film. I will get the info bc its interesting- Tillman shot the statue, the statue was purchased in 18578 by Gov, and stored in charleston orphanage bc the capitol was incomplete, charleston was under siege, sims was the instigator of the false story of the broken cane, his columbia home and bamberg plantation woodlands were burned by sherman, he was pissed
Thank you for your information. I find the fact that Simms fabricated the cane story very plausible–he had no love for the North, and as you state, they did burn his house. I would appreciate any sources that you could list that would support this view.
As for the breaking of the cane the second time,, I’ll stand by my statement that it was indeed Blease, not Tillman. Blease was governor at the time, and had a fondness for alcohol. He was at the State House randomly firing his pistol, leveled down at the Washington statue (it was located on the south side of the building at the time) and hit the cane. A letter in the State archives written by Dr Salley (founder off that institution) and in their files, attests to that. The second piece of broken cane is in the possession of the State Museum, but not on display.
Of course, in their willingness to believe that it is outsiders who are the cause of most of our misfortunes, most South Carolinians readily choose to believe that the only breaking of the cane was done by the Yankees.
The State House Historian and I will insist that it was broken during the installation. But man what a great bunch of tales regardless of the truth – that’s what I love about teaching history.
wonderful Colonel, pappy agrees- Tillman shot at but did not break cane, a drunken shot, probably cursing Hampton, -he was jealous and only shows that when he drank, why his nephew shot gonzales,jealousy of honor- the state has too many idiots who do not even appreciate the fact that ugly truth is still better than a stupid lie
As for Blease, he was as racist as Tillman but smart enough to love on the millbillys and he began the anti union movement , the second slavery – thats dramatic but i am drinking, -but in his defense! Coleman Blease during his inauguration declared to a state audience that they should abstain from sodas and stick to a “good cold beer’ – thats the deal Colonel- the cane issue is great
Millbillies – I love it!
And your source for this would be what? Mine would be Alexander Salley (I assume that you have heard of him) and the State Dept. of Archives and History. Why don’t you give them a call or consult Salley’s works? Ignorance is not necessarily bliss, sometimes its darnight irritating.
Sims was a great purveyor of the Lost Cause Myth. It is worth studying as one of the greatest examples of propaganda totally resisting history. It was even believed in the North at least by racist elements. There are several great essays about it that are worth the time to read, would love to see this resolved by a scholar.
The Burning of Columbia – February 17, 1865
The Last Confederate Soldier to Leave Columbia
By Lieutenant Milford Overley
9th Kentucky Cavalry
I was one of Hampton’s rear guard, and was probably the very last Confederate to leave the city, yet I saw no cotton burning in the streets of Columbia, nor did I hear any order from any one to fire the cotton, but I did hear one just the reverse. It was given to a detachment, three companies, from the 9th Kentucky Cavalry that was ordered back to Columbia as a provost guard after the Confederates had evacuated the place and before Sherman entered it. I asked and obtained of Col. Breckinridge, the Brigade Commander, permission to accompany the detachment, and was present and heard this order given the officer commanding: “It is Gen. Hampton’s order that you return to Columbia, bring out any straggling Confederates you may find, and see that no cotton is fired.” Having no time to lose, the detachment immediately proceeded on its mission, passing down in front of Sherman’s skirmish line, which was in plain view, and entering the city in advance of him. In the suburbs we met Mayor Goodwyn and other municipal officers in carriages, with a white flag, going out to surrender the city. During the parley, which, however, was a brief one, we hastily visited different streets in search of straggling Confederate soldiers, but found none, neither did we find any cotton burning. Falling back as the Federals advanced along the street, the detachment passed out toward the east. I remained in the city after the detachment had gone, just keeping out of the enemy’s reach by falling back from street to street till pushed out by the advancing infantry (they had no mounted men in the city at that time), yet I saw no cotton burning in Columbia. Basing my conclusions on what I saw (the Federals, in possession of the city), on what I failed to see (any cotton burning in the street), and on what I heard (the order to see that no cotton was fired), I can safely say that the Confederates had no hand in the burning of Columbia, Gen. Sherman’s official report to the contrary notwithstanding.”
History is written by the victor.
When history conflicts with the prevalent mythology — go with the mythology.
I don’t have the newspaper article handy about this incident when Sherman was heading towards Atlanta, but this is about one of my ancestors and his shooting of a sheriff’s deputy.
The sheriff deputized a number of volunteers to scout the rural areas north of Atlanta to tell the citizens to evacuate before the Union troops arrived. Several of these deputies told Collier (my ancestor) to evacuate his family and himself. Collier told them he wasn’t leaving, and they told him they would be back later to see if he had left as ordered.
Collier sent his family, driven by his Negro farmhand, to his brother’s farm, and Collier remained on his farm. The deputies (volunteers) returned later and ordered Collier to leave or they would drag him out. When he refused one of the deputies took a chair on the porch, smashed a window, and started to enter the house. That’s when Collier fired his shotgun and killed the deputy, leaving him half-way inside the house. No other shots were fired.
The other deputies left to get the sheriff and reinforcements for Collier’s arrest. Collier was tried a day or two later. The judge dismissed the case with the admonition that Collier was justified in killing the deputy in order to protect his home. The judge also said that (in general terms) that the US Constitution guaranteed that protection, that the sheriff was wrong in allowing these deputies to evict families who did not want to leave, and that the deceased deputy had committed illegal entry.
The entire article was printed on the front page of the Atlanta newspaper. Collier did go to stay with his family.
Since Georgia was in the Confederacy at the time, why would a Confederate Judge be quoting the United States Constitution?
Little too shifty Henry?Come up with a better story.
I think that the basic elements of the US Constitution would have been kept and observed by the Confederacy. If I can get a copy of the newspaper article, and can find a suitable place to post it on Fitsnews at a later time, you can read the article yourself. In any case, Collier was acquitted of murder.
What this shows more than anything, is that for as long as can be remembered, South Carolinian’s should not be allowed to play with matches. They burned their own capital, they burned crosses on lawns, and black churches in the countryside.
very smart comment. who are you ?
All history is written by the victors. Along with Sherman’s “scorched earth policy”, It is a fact to people that lived here at the time, Sherman burned Columbia, plain and simple.
My Grandmother said that her grandmother said that was true, and passed it to me.
Even more disturbing, than that; Get ready for another US Government push, from Rich/Controling Coroprate elected politicians, that will enslave us even more. Why do we let this happen ???
http://jogglingboardpress.com/books/carnivalofdestruction/
Check out this book if you want to know the truth.
Hooray for Sherman and the USA!
just ask the “source” who said the Lexington Ring indictments were imminent. They should know.
D. Who gives a damn
Throughout history the capital of a failed insurrection against the legitimate government was subject to being sacked. Columbia wasn’t the Confederacy’s capital, but it was seen as the capital of secessionism. It got off lightly. The Romans would have destroyed it and sown the ground with salt. (Hmmm…not a bad idea.)
That has already been done, add Nikki, and stupid people, Hey, keep’em stupid. Not a bad idea.
Columbia’s real problem is that it’s two inches from the sun.
The great idea, of the US Government, is comming for all of us.
I say, burn Columbia again, with all of the people and government so called officials to the ground again. Nuke’em, only way to be sure !
COLA is a shithole
Come out in the light so I can see what how big an ass is going to have a mud hole stomped in it & then walked dry.
and then?
The S.C. Confederate Relic Room and Museum claims that more than eighty percent of the city was destroyed, although Loewen refers to this government-funded entity as “the least accurate museum operated by a state government anywhere in the United States.”
————
False.
The museum’s mission is to defend our culture — including buying, selling, owning, trading, mortgaging and otherwise using slaves and their offspring as property.
The museum’s 2013-14 budget is $1,047,985 plus $689,885, or $1,737,870.
It employs full-time white people.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess120_2013-2014/appropriations2013/tas101.htm
Loewen is a Yankee and a damn liar.
You think slave owning is something that should be defended?
Whoooosh!!
You’re right. He got me. But he’s very good at trolling, in my defense!
Yes. It is a personal decision and right of the states, not the Federal government.
Citizens’ representatives from eleven states unanimously adopted the March 11, 1861, Confederate Constitution (drafted in Charleston), which specifically describes the rights to own slaves twenty-six times.
For instance, Article IV, Sec. 2:
“1. The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states, and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any state of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property: and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.”
It is very clear and was a cause worth fighting for.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
My forbears supported that constitution which gave the states rights to make such decisions.
I honor and support their wisdom and courage.
Ha ha ha! You are the most hilarious troll I’ve encountered in a long time. Kudos, Sir or Madam. I needed to smile today. You gave yourself away, of course, by citing a source and linking to it!
For those without a sarcasm detector, General McConnell’s argument above presupposes that slaves are not human beings, nor citizens.
Article I, Sec. 9:
“4. No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.”
The Constitution does not address slaves as humans.
We correctly considered slaves as rights in property.
forbears
——
four bears
McConnell is a relic in his own mind.
If you are a General, then I’m the Pope!
Don’t want none, don’t start some, beyotches!
Seriously, though, can we talk about SC’s crappy museums? I went to the SC State Museum in Columbia and thought I was in the kid’s section the entire time.
What kind of museum do you want to visit? I’ve personally been to all of these:
For Militaria:
SC Military Museum down on Bluff Road (some things you won’t see anywhere else like the Carbine Williams Collection), still in its infancy
American Military Museum in Charleston’s Citadel Mall (Just okay)
Fort Jackson has 4 different museums that you can easily visit in one morning on Basic Training, AG Corps, Finance Corp and Chaplin’s Corps
SC Civil War Museum in Myrtle Beach (Hwy 17) has a great collection but could use a little polish.
The Relic Room is rather pointless in my opinion but they do have some interesting (un)Civil War stuff.
For SC History:
The SC State Museum is about as good as it gets – you need to visit when the have an exhibit that interests you, it changes about every 2-3 monhths
Local History
Museum of York Countuy (Rock Hill)
Up Country Museum (Greenville)
Pickens County Museum (yes, in Pickens, someone was kind to them)
Georgetown Maritime Museum – in Georgetown
Kings Mountain, Cowpens, Ninety-Six, Fort Sumter, Paris Island – There are a bunch of them worth visiting depending on your taste – you won’t find the Smithsonian.
Here’s a fairly accurate list of all of them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museums_in_South_Carolina
Don’t care, all I know is Columbia is ready for history to repeat itself. A fire wiping out 80% of the city would be nothing but beneficial.
Anyone know if there’s a William Tecumseh Sherman VII?
Gen. Sherman had either a grandson or a great-grandson living in the Columbia area. I think he had a landscaping business – but not sure. He purchased a brick on the bridge at Riverbanks Zoo that is marked “W T Sherman” or “Wm T Sherman” – it may still be there. It’s been a few years since I looked at it.
The damn Yankees burned Cola to the ground! War is hell said Sherman…I guess he felt compelled to justify murdering and raping all those defenceless women and children…He would be considered a war criminal if alive today…Hell, he looks like a bona fide psycho in all the pics I have ever seen…Cola has never recovered…
“he looks like a bona fide psycho”
Actually, he really was. He was coming off of a nervous breakdown and ended up being the perfect sociopath to carry out the atrocities needed to end the war more swiftly.
He himself admitted that if not for war, he was a mostly useless human being. That’s something the North can be proud of.
ever been in Iraq?
“Sherman’s men did burn several smaller towns in South Carolina. Who burned Columbia is not so simply answered, however.”
“As they abandoned Columbia, Confederate soldiers and stragglers burned two railroad stations, the Congaree River bridge, and piles of cotton on Richardson Street, in accord with Confederate policy, as United States troops arrived on February 17th, 1865.”
“Drunken Union soldiers as well as ‘the local criminal element’ looted houses for souvenirs, set fires in them, and intimidated residents.”
“One marker is correct: drunken U.S. soldiers did burn Gibbe’s House, but Lucas doubts that their actions extended the general conflagration. The wind over the cotton bales did that, and when the wind died down in the early morning hours, exhausted firefighters and U.S. troops finally got the fire under control.”
From the very fun-to-read “Lies Across America: What Our Historic Sites Get Wrong” by James W. Loewen. He does all 50 states.
Quit bitching, people- I let you guys off easy. Haley’s doing more damage to South Carolina than I ever could. Wish I had that crazy-ass bitch with me back in 1865, but I heard tell she was part of “Hooker’s Brigade”…
In Gone With the Wind, the fire that Rhett rescues Scarlett from was set by Confederates, not Sherman. The retreating Confederates are blowing up the ammo so the Yankees won’t get it, Rhett tells Scarlett.
I mean, those are the words that come out of Rhett Butler’s mouth. Now we just need Elvis to notarize it, and it’s completely Southern.
Federal/Soviet forces started the fire.
FITS and his Dumb@$$@$ are worrying about 150 years ago…While American burns today at the hands of our insider-Hitler, the idiots and the democrats elected president.
Gen. McConnell should have been the one to save us from the US/SC government, instead, he was making sure his uniform was a hansom look for faggotts like Tango.
Sherman said it best when he said:
“My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to
follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us.
Fear is the beginning of wisdom. “
He obviously didn’t go far enough. Which leads to this:
“We cannot change the hearts and minds of those people of the South,
but we can make war so terrible … [and] make them so sick of war that
generations would pass away before they would again appeal to it.”
I suppose that’s where we are now. The south has never really changed and is itching for a fight with Feds for no good reason…just so happens to be when a black man is in the white house.
The best analysis on this point is that Hampton stupidly order the valuable cotton which was stacked in the middle of Elmwood be burned. Weather condtions were Red Flag Day dry and the winds very blustery. Hampton was not stupid and realized the danger. He rescinded order and left. The new order did not reach the troops who were assigned the task or some Fire Bear hers acting on therpir own fired the cotton. The blowing cotton blew down wind and caught almost all building down wind to about Gervais street on fire. On learning of the fire, Sherman immediately order his United States Army troops to fight the fire. the fire consumed the part of Columbia downwind of the cotton to about Gervis Street.
The Rebels made other stupid mistakes in his doomed attempt to thwart the US Army such as throwing up ramparts out on State road which can still be seen today but are on SCE&g property and visiting them requires permission. Hampton is guilty of throwing artillery shells on Sherman’s troops who were peaseful encampedaccross the river. This pissed Sherman off and he retaliatedby shelling the capitol. You can see the stars the mark the hits today.
When Sherman’s advance rode into Columbia, his Colonel in charge met the mayor and another official who were unded a white flag to delver a noted of surrender of the city, rebel troops attacked. The colonel in charge gave orders to summarily executive the envoys if any of his men were hurt our killed. Fortunately the rebel troops were beaten off and the surrender went ahead.
The march to the sea and the res of Sherman’s campaign was very peaceful and gentle. Only one rape on the whole mission . No murders. Houses sheltering snipers were burned and transportaion and was materials were destroyed. Compare this to Germany in the blood landsof eastern Europe where they assembled whole villages and executed them or Stalins reconquest of thisarea where EVERY woman and girl was raped
. The industrial equipment was loaded on box cars and shipped a to Prussia.
Sherman destroyed only militarily useful goods, plants and equipment.
Compare this with The Red Army’s retaking
“In my official report of this conflagration [in Columbia,
South Carolina], I distinctly charged it to General Wade Hampton and confess I
did so pointedly to shake the faith of his people in him, for he was in my
opinion boastful, and professed to be the special champion of South Carolina.”
Source: “Memoirs of General W.T. Sherman, revised edition, vol. 2,” by W.T.
Sherman, 1886.