Mike Kiger is a Philadelphia native who is currently serving as chairman of the Pickens County (S.C.) Democratic Party. He’s a “progressive” (a word that’s about as meaningless as “conservative”), so naturally his Facebook page is peppered with all sorts of crude, far left photoshop “art” and incendiary statements.
Of course Kiger is a bit more foamy at the mouth than most progressives we know …
For example in response to a recent story in The Washington Post regarding a Navy football player accused of sexual assault, Kiger writes that “we could just shoot the rapist mother fucker in the back of the head, hang him in the public square and burn his dead worthless carcass to a crisp.”
Wow …
In another entry, Kiger offers up his thoughts on lawmakers who support a bill requiring women to document the sexual assault charges they filed in the event they access federal funding for abortion on rape grounds.
Here’s what he had to say …
These goddamn sons-of-bitches have absolutely no soul! Anyone voting for this bill should be executed on the floor of the House. And it should be televised to make sure every other heartless anti-choice, anti-woman misogynistic mother fucker in the House gets the message …
Again, wow …
Anyway, one of Kiger’s favorite causes is subjecting churches to taxation.
“I mean really, does God need a tax shelter?” he writes in one Facebook post.
Hmmmm …
Kiger’s views barely registered in the Palmetto State marketplace of ideas – well, until he posted his “church tax” idea on the Facebook page of U.S. Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-S.C.). Now our inbox is blowing up with screen grabs of his inanity (no, we didn’t forget the “s” – it’s a word, look it up).
So we’re addressing it …
In its 1971 Lemon v. Kurtzman ruling, the U.S. Supreme Court noted that the tax exempt status of churches was reinforced by “more than 200 years of virtually universal practice imbedded in our colonial experience and continuing into the present.” That’s great, but we’ve never viewed tradition (a.k.a. “the way it’s always been done”) as a compelling argument either for or against a practice, so we’re gonna need something more than that.
A much better explanation was offered by the court the previous year in its Walz vs. Tax Commission of the City of New York ruling, which argued against taxing churches on the grounds that it violated the constitutionally prescribed separation of these two institutions – infringing upon the free exercise of religion.
A tax exemption, on the other hand, “creates only a minimal and remote involvement between church and state and far less than taxation of churches. (An exemption) restricts the fiscal relationship between church and state, and tends to complement and reinforce the desired separation insulating each from the other.”
Buddhist, Catholic, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Mormon, Muslim, Scientologist … you name it … worship places are sacred.
America’s tax code is already oppressive enough … and oppressively complex enough. Just like the government it supports. That code needs to be lowered and flattened, while government needs to be greatly curtailed and restricted.
The very last thing government needs to do is go in search of new targets to fuel its spending addiction …
What do you think? Vote in our poll and post your thoughts in our comments section below …
72 comments
Churches that engage in political activism should be subject to taxes, same as any individual, business, or other institution, IMHO.
Agreed, and let’s start with that political cesspool across the river, Brookland Baptist.
…and their connected-at-the-hip friends on Sumter Street at First Baptist… isn’t that a bed of sin coming to the light; black Baptists and southern Baptists taking turns filling the other’s poop chute…
And BibleWay….
Agreed, my green monster friend. My Mom went with a friend,, and was amazed at the political overtones that Barbrossa has mentioned. She said not only that, but a Hate speach was there. This is clearly not worship. Without real leadership in SC, we gota ” deal with it “.
Who is “Barbrossa”?
Dr. Wendell Estep is the senior pastor at First Baptist and has been for 25 years. Dr. Charles Jackson is the senior pastor at Brookland Baptist and has been since the ’70s.
Politically they are as far apart as most Republicans and Democrats.
Spiritually, they are more somewhat more akin but even there, there are
significant differences. FBC is a Southern Baptist Church and Brookland is an independent – more American Baptist than Southern Baptist
Just wondering but is the implication that FBC and Brookland are not guilty of the sin of gluttony and lust for the things of the world, I.e. power, political influence and the approval of men such as Glenn McConnell, Thad Viers, Nathan Ballentine and John Courson? Just a little confused because the motivations are much the same as evidenced by the brothers-in-arms relationship that has developed in the last decade?
I’d love to see your delineation of the list of ”…sins of gluttony and lust for the things of the world… against FBC and BBC. BBC has any number of community assistance programs set up and they work hard in all of those endeavors. FBC supports a number of local assistance programs as well as local, national and international missions.
For the record, I do not attend either church. I did attend FBC in the ’80s and have friends who attend BBC.
get ready, this is going to indulge your patience. i will share with you that i initially commented tongue-in-cheek to the comments that wanted to point the finger at “black” churches for their shortcomings, if only according to their narrow assumption, that these churches are 100% supporters of president obama, and therefore are a blight on society. but your query has caused me pause to remember that i should be more careful about making comments in jest, especially in mixed company. however, i would not divulge specifically in this forum anything that i may know, but i will allow these words to speak to your spirit. The Word teaches us that our unrighteous deeds will cause our righteous deeds to be of no effect if our unrighteousness goes unrepentant. i can attest from a first hand, scriptural analysis by being involved directly in some of those CAP’s and righteous endeavors that both entities should work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. the very scriptures they preach will bear judgement against them unless sins of commission and ignorance be addressed, not for public show and benefit, but simply for the benefit of salvation and that they not find themselves, even after having preached the Good News, being cast away. i love them both dearly, but the truth of El Shaddai, Abba YHWH, or as you may call Him, G-d Almighty, rules the day, everyday… not just on “Sunday”…
“…The Word teaches us that our unrighteous deeds will cause our righteous deeds to be of no effect if our unrighteousness goes unrepentant….”
I concur with your assessment of the efforts of a righteous man (or in this case groups of men). Seeing plenty of effect of the righteous deeds of both congregations, I would challenge you again – what specific deeds of these two specific churches are we talking about? Talk is cheap.
“…however, i would not divulge specifically in this forum anything that i may know, but i will allow these words to speak to your spirit.”
if these words do not speak to your spirit or even to your intellect, then even the specificity of which i speak won’t be enough for you. therefore, i do not accept your challenge on the grounds that you will probably argue the merits of my assertions anyway…
good day sir, and thank you for your service
I wholly agree with this.
I really want to hear Hillary Clinton’s take on this, but only if she answers in the demeaning dialect she adopts when speaking in black churches.
http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/insulting-blacks.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGDm4jkDbGQ
You just placed a tax on every African-America church in America. I bet Rev. Jeremiah Wright is $#!**ing all over himself, w/ Farrakhan…They live in millions-dollar mansions, and convince a lot of ignorant, and liberal whites and some libertarian Republicans, that the slavery that America fought to end 150 years ago, is a reason to let them, and Obama, rob us blind…
Jim Baker almost had a damn city, Pat Robertson has a couple “nice” houses, and those nuts on TBN have at least five mansions…
Those are TV preachers and I have no idea what they do from their pulpits, in front of their congregations.
I have seen Wright and Farrakhan in their churches.
Wright and Farrakhan are America-Hating, subversive leftwing political activists, using the church as a business to perpetuate Hatred and political sanctions against the white, decent and Conservative people of our country,…
So you better get the F*#k out my face w/ your simple-minded liberal-excuse Bull-S#!* before I slap the F*#k out of you so hard, your teeth crack…you ignorant F*#k….
The only thing you could slap is G.W. Bush’s ass and give him a reach-a-round. Speaking of slaps, when you was born the doctor slapped your momma.
That’s what i thought…LMAO…
I see you already had an idea that maybe your mom got slapped. What about the times she dropoed you on your head?
That’s so original…you MUST be a liberal…
“And the Lord said, let the Earthly Kingdoms take money from my church when we speak out against war and other earthly atrocities.”
Amen.
From the book of 2nd Opinions no doubt?
Precisely.
Taxing “church” or any sanctuary of worship properly organized under the law seems a bit ludicrous. The separation between Church and State is a very important principle. I just wish the extreme “religious nutjobs” would realize that as well. A better route, a compromise (I know that’s an evil word for extremists), would be to classify religious non-profit status as a stand-alone category. In this category donations, contributions etc. are NOT tax deductible for those contributing. That seems to not only be the best option, but also the only way that Church and State can be as separate as realistically possible.
“Worship places are sacred”. Absolutely, but I don’t think retirement homes, recreation centers, retreat & conference resorts, swimming pools, endowed real estate holdings and other revenue generating properties are sacred. As an example, New Orleans stays on the brink of fiscal collapse largely because about half of the city belongs to the Catholic Church.
Liberalism is a Religion, so make sure you Tax Obama to H#!! and back..please!!!!…
That B@$t@*d has robbed America blind, and sold out to the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda, which will cost us countless Trillions in years to come, for his F*#k ups….
You are just said beyond redemption if you think the selling out of America started in 2008… don’t forget that it was Reagan who sold training and weapons to Al Qaeda which subsequently morphed into that outpost of the Muslim Brotherhood…
True that!
If we prosecuted treason still…you should be hanged for it. Reagan was the BEST American president in my lifetime. Obama is the treasonous WORST…By Far. Obama would be sued by his own trial lawyers for mal-practice, if there were any justice in this nation that he has made so hideous….
I wish the congregants in the church of lord-god Obama would go live with him in Iran, or some other country that he places before ours….
And lest we forget brothers, Reagan was also quite the union leader. His opportunism knew no bounds. Having an actor for a prezodent is like being married to a porn star. You’re never sure when they’re faking it for the cameras.
Reagan denounced you ignorant F*#ks, and the democrat party. He was on the inside and saw what Fascists your are. And he said so. So quit trying to incorporate him, and ride his coat-tails …how bout educate yourself, before you make a complete F*#kin Dumb@$$ of yourself….
PS: If Reagan was faking, he still beats the F*#k out of your deity Obama, that your stupid @$$ worships….
Concerning you, I believe Gump said it best.
I’m glad you admit you have to let others (Gump) tell you what to think. (Isn’t Gump special needs? that figures)….
Anyway, It’s what I’ve said about Dumb@$$ liberals all along. You are fed every thought you express. That’s why you come across as F*#king idiots, then stick with it, after I slap the livin’ $#!* out of you with a realistic and original thought.
This is from me: after reading your ignorant-@$$, cliche comment. You are a true F*#kin robot, Obama dolt…You are like most of the stupid F*#ks who worship him and the democrat party….
Reagan raise the debt to 3 trillion! Gotta love The Reagan Myth.
You ever hear of Tip o’Neil, Dumb@$$????….
Reagan raised the debt 18 times from 1981-1987. He needed Democratic votes to do this, which is when Tipper came in. You’re welcome…
GOOD ONE!
YOU BETCHA!
YOU BETCHA!
Bush is not a religion, get over it.
Democratic leader? The chairman of the Pickens Democratic Party “leads” about 6 people.
Tax them the same as any other business.
They do. Churches are non-profits, and they get an exemption just like secular non-profit organizations. I wonder if Mr. Kiger would get as fired up about the question of whether Planned Parenthood or labor unions should pay taxes?
Except a lot of churches are not non-profits. They are profit makers for their charismatic leader. The only reason they don’t make a profit is because they pay out exorbitant salaries to the leadership.
So it spends what it brings in, then? Tell me again how it is not a non-profit? How much do you think United Way pays its executives? Is it a non-profit?
Also, it is a pretty sad statement if you honestly think a substantial number of churches spend the bulk of their budget on paying a huge salary to their pastor. Of course there are exceptions, but they are exactly that.
To quote the late great,Frank Zappa:’Tax the churches.Tax the fuck out of the churches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLVUHknb-Is
And the businesses owned by the churches!
I am torn on this issue, the idea of taxing God seems sacrilegious,
yet Jesus was born in Bethlehem because of the tax census. There are way too
many churches who are fat off of the tithes of their congregants yet do they
distribute those funds to the poor and needy, or do they build buildings they
don’t need, hire staff that they don’t need, or spend it on politics?
I do not think it would be wrong to require them to be like
charities, they would have to adhere to what they say their mission statement
is or face fines and/or loss of tax exemption.
Because after all if they truly lived up to what they claim
then we could spend less tax money on welfare and international aid. I’m not
saying that churches do not do things for the needy or international needs, I’m
just saying not enough of them do, as much as they should.
“yet Jesus was born in Bethlehem because of the tax census.”
Holy Shit!(literally)
I always thought it was the Holy Spirit entering the Virgin Mary.
But no, we have the state to thank for Jesus as well. All the blessings flow from the state. Praise be to the state!
I did not say Jesus was conceived because of the census, but that the census was the reason that the Holy Family was in Bethlehem.
Luke 2
1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed . 2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3 And all went to be taxed , every one into his own city. 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem;(because he was of the house and lineage of David:) 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife,being great with child. 6 And so it was , that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered . (KJV)
Sorry,but Jesus was born in Irmo.It’s in ,The Brand Spanking New Lexington County Version Of The Bible! Is that enough capital letters for you?!
Doesn’t the church staff pay income tax? Hiring unnecessary positions or huge salaries means that money is being taxed. Maybe not for huge, gaudy buildings or some other uses, though.
I’m not too familiar with Pickens County, but from what I have read here I would assume that being the Chairman of the Dems there would be a pretty unpopular gig. Much like getting promoted to a top-5 position in al-Qaeda back during the peak of the US Predator drone “Warheads for Foreheads” program. Lots of Achmeds and Abdullahs got word of their promotion to the big time and said, “Uhhhhhhh, no thanks!” Is there a big-time Dem Party in Pickens? Do they usually have more credible, mainstream leadership? Just curious if that’s how this asshat slipped through the cracks…
You can count Democrats in Pickens County on one hand. Does that answer your question?
It does, thanks! That’s what I figured…
“That the power to tax involves the power to destroy is not to be denied.” If you want to destroy churches, this is the way to go! The day we start taxing churches is the beginning of the end for them and the end of the first amendment – not really a big deal since we’ve already long since tossed out at least the 2nd, 4th, and 10th.
Oh yeah and the 9th.
ya know what would be great? an example of something or someone that was destroyed by taxes. like al capone or smoking. except something that makes your point.
I think we should tax libraries.
They belong to the government already. Your point?
i think he’s trying to say ignorance should be tax free while knowledge foots the bill.
Don’t government workers already belong to the government-and we tax them?
And God said, “Kigerdamit!”
All churches should pay property taxes.
Those engaged in trade should have to pay income taxes on the trade.
Those that are involved in politics should have to include all tithing as income to be taxed..
A great idea! It’s not as if Billy and Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar and hundreds of others of their ilk haven’t used the church scam to make themselves very rich. Have South Carolinians forgotten about Heritage USA?
the phrase ‘separation of church and state’ does not appear in the constitution. the relevant clause says ‘congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion’. this is like saying the gov. should not establish pepsi over coke but it doesn’t mean pepsi or coke don’t have to pay taxes. churches should get deductions for their charitable work or giving but why should private organizations get a free ride just because they call themselves a ‘religion’? i have all kind of nutty beliefs, that doesn’t entitle me to a free ride on my neighbors backs (they don’t pay for the roads, the sewers the schools, nuthin at all and i say fuck em)
i can’t find anything to disagree with in Kiger’s words. in fact, i can’t see anything that Fits should disagree with. i mean, exactly what is the problem? that he’s a democrat?
We already, though not explicitly, do tax the churches and threaten to tax them further if any of the non-politically correct Waspish, RC or Jewish congregations do speak out on issues that are against their morals. OTOH, Mosques, politically correct “Xains”
Of course, not that 80% of the rescue and recovery aid post hurricanes Hugo, Katrina and Sandy came from the churches, voluntarily and of the moral calling of their congregations, filling the gap that the “Al Haig-ish” FEMA gaulieters will NEVER have the budget to fill, but tht is another rant.
How about the Rev. Chad Vick and the Rev. Ted Vick. Rev. Chad is the pastor of Free Worship in Cheraw. I wonder about how much “taxing” he does every Sunday Morning. Rumor has it that there is a kiosk in the fellowship hall / coffee shop to make your tax deductible contribution!!!
When I read the comments from a Pickens legislator, I thought George Singleton had got elected.
If a church can prove that God approves of their church, they should be exempt. Otherwise, they pay taxes.
The tax collector should come to each church, figure out the taxes, and throw that amount in the air. Whatever God wants, He keeps.
How do these types of people represent us? It would ultimately hurt the taxpayers because churches would need to ask for more money to keep the doors open. I am curious what happens in other countries? Europe? Though not many people go to church there in my experience except maybe Italy. Wonder if it is because their governments tax churches? I’ll do some research.
OK this is interesting:
http://www.npr.org/2012/10/09/162570987/german-catholics-path-to-heaven-comes-with-taxes
Different because the church is demanding the tax because they have too little participation but ties in with the discussion. Overall, churches do good for society and we need to imagine the big picture here.
Yes, yes, and yes. Churches are by far the best business to be in. Every Sunday millions of people, rich and poor pay admission to be allowed to hear that they are going to hell in a hand basket. And you know what really pizzes me off, they tell the poor to tithe first and god will take care of everything else. BULLSHIT. If god took care of them there would not be so many sick and poor in the world.