To hear supporters of U.S. President Barack Obama’s socialized medicine plan tell it (and they are spending $1 billion to make sure word gets out), your health insurance costs are going to fall under “Obamacare.” Oh, and the deficit will go down. And the economy will improve. And unicorns will leap over rainbows into endlessly rolling flower beds of “hope and change.”
The reality?
According to health care expert Avik Roy of The Manhattan Institute, Obamacare will “drive up the cost of health insurance for people who purchase coverage on their own.”
“Obamacare will increase underlying insurance rates for younger men by an average of 97 to 99 percent, and for younger women by an average of 55 to 62 percent,” Roy writes in his latest column.
Roy also explodes the myth of Obamacare’s “subsidies.”
“Middle-class Americans face the double-whammy of higher insurance premiums, and higher taxes to pay for other people’s subsidies,” he writes.
Exactly … the pool of dependents expands, while the (shrinking) pool of those paying for their dependency gets stuck with another bill.
We’re already witnessing the impact of Obamacare mandates on the production side of the economy. But this “double-whammy” Roy references is going to have a disastrous impact on the consumption side.
In other words this is yet another reason to shut down this monstrosity before it’s too late …
60 comments
Another conservative think tank spewing misinformation. Riveting.
Four days to go.
As I was reading the article, but before I got to the comments, I started asking myself how long before a liberal poster attacked the messenger, since Avik Roy is a conservative, rather than disputing what Roy had to say. Since I have the comments sorted by most popular, imagine my delight when it was the very first response. Then I keep going and see 2 more similar posts. Indeed, as I hit post there is not a single substantive response. This has become so boringly predictable.
I believe the “attack the messenger defense” reached its zenith under Carl Rove, trying to deflect questions for Bush and Cheney prior to and after the invasion of Iraq. I believe everyone who asked the status of finding WMD or suggested the intelligence was either wrong or faked earned the title “partisan democrat.”
In this case, I see nothing wrong with pointing out that no Republican is going to have anything positive to say about the Affordable Care Act, so why bother reading. They are providing no new unbiased information.
Of course premiums will go up for some, but they will go down for others, pre-existing conditions will be covered, and young adults will be able to stay on their parents plans to age 25; offsetting a lot of the premium increase they may experience.. People with full time jobs and a group policy are likely to see no material impact at all; and I believe that is over 70% of the people on private insurance.
The belief of the Democrats is that the overall result will be positive for most Americans, and the hope of the Republicans is that will not be the case. What more is there to say until the results roll in. I am cautiously optimistic given the information on premiums that has come out thus far that many people will actually see decreased premiums. Not to mention the refunds the insurance companies have had to provide for overcharging.
“In this case, I see nothing wrong with pointing out that no Republican is going to have anything positive to say about the Affordable Care Act, so why bother reading. ”
Yes, best to close your mind to information that conflicts with your belief system. As your your question, “What more is there to say until the results roll in”, the results are already rolling in. Rates are up. The exchanges are not ready. Employers are dropping coverage, reducing hours or just plain not hiring because of Obamacare. Obama is violating his own law (I suppose that makes him the ultimate “political terrorist” or “anarchist” for ignoring the “law of the land”) by delaying the employer mandate. There is already a great deal of evidence of the harm it is causing, and scant evidence (you can offer nothing more than a belief) of its benefits.
And it is Karl Rove, and that was about as bizarre a non sequitur as I have seen in a while.
I’ll correct Siri on Karl’s name next time, and its not that bazaar. Republicans are the masters of ignore the issues and attack the questioner. So I always find it amusing when they become frustrated when they get the same in return.
I have not closed my mind to information. I just don’t trust all information sources. The premium estimates from the exchanges are actually quite good, and the insurance companies have been paying refunds. I am anxious to see what kind of premium my small business may qualify for in November.
As the employment picture improves, I guess we will see how long employers can continue to screw their employees without losing talent to competitors.
As for benefits, there are tens of thousands of people with preexisting conditions who will benefit, there are tens of thousands of families with unemployed children between the ages of 21 and 25 who are benefiting, and tens of thousands of low income working people will benefit. I acknowledge, those are not valuable benefits from a Republican point of view.
Rates are going up now. In NC, they are calculated to go up 400%. Is that “quite good” in your opinion? I assume you are relying on the HHS spin that projections (for 2016, by the way) are a bit lower (16%) than the CBO’s projection for that year. That does not mean much to those trying to buy insurance. It would be like responding to the stagnant unemployment rate by saying “but things will be looking up for job seekers in 2016.”
Employers are not trying to screw anyone. They want to keep the doors open. Hours are being cut industry wide. Walgreens just said they will be pushing their employees into the exchanges. UPS just dumped spousal coverage for 33,000 employees. I just spoke with a client that was considering paying the fine and eliminating coverage because it would cut his costs by 2/3 over what he is having to pay now. This is a feature of the bill, by the way, not a bug. Force everyone off employer plans and into the exchanges. So much for Obama’s plan to keep your plan if you liked it.
And Republicans have been on board with covering pre-existing conditions for years. Every plan I have seen from a Republican or conservative think tank has started with that premise. But keep telling yourself that lie about heartless Republicans if it makes you feel better about what Obama is doing to millions of Americans that are finding it harder, not easier, to not only find coverage, but to provide for their families (given the lack of hiring/reduction in hours). Some compassion.* Compassion is wanting to make their lives better, not worse. I believe Obama is a narcissist who callously, knowingly is impoverishing people for the ideological goal of expanding government and the personal vanity of preserving his signature “achievement.”
* Note, during Cruz’s filibuster Dick Durbin bragged about a woman named Judy who was unable to find a good job but, Obama be praised, was now eligible for Medicaid under the expanded eligibility. I know liberals on this board have lampooned the supposed Republican “solution” to pre-existing conditions is to become so poor you can get Medicaid, and now our “compassionate” Democratic politicians are bragging about this very notion. Remind me again which party is serious about actually fixing this problem?
Can you show me bill passed by the Republican House that requires insurers to cover preexisting conditions. I’ll wait…
Excuse me, “Can you show me one bill”
I thought liberals rejected pointless political stunts? You sneer at Cruz for taking a stand against this train wreck because he could not stop it, yet now fault Republicans for not engaging in PR votes?
Their standard bearer in the last election made that the central promise of his replacement election. Ryan before him. DeMint’s plan covered preexisting conditions.
So your answer is there are none. I thought as much.
No, my answer is every Republican proposal in the past decade at least that I have ever heard of starts from the proposition of providing coverage of preexisting coverage. It is the whole purpose of health care reform.
So when the Republicans were in charge of all three branches of government, why didn’t they propose a bill to require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions? I am sure there would have been no objections from Democrats.
LOL on the last sentence, but the GOP should have done more on health care under Bush.
So you are saying any attempt by republicans to pass a bill that would have required insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions would have been a stunt? I assume that’s because they never would have gotten that past the Republican leadership.
If they thought this was a good idea, why didn’t they say so before Obama forced their hand on the issue? The answer is because they don’t believe insurance companies should have to cover pre-existing conditions and left to Republicans that never would have happened. Your arguments are BS.
Yes. It would have been a stunt because it would be DOA in the Senate and would be vetoed by Obama even if Reid suddenly began concerning himself with a health reform that did not make matters worse, as Obamacare does.
Again, every Republican proposal includes this coverage. It is the whole point of health care reform. Your attacks are idiotic and juvenile.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/share/what-obamacare-means-you?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=email241-text1&utm_campaign=healthcare
Ha ha. Better coverage for those already on insurance? Tell that to the hundreds of thousands losing coverage (which Obama has constantly promised would not happen). And how does increasing premiums 400% increase options for those in NC looking for coverage?
CL –
17% of NC residents are uninsured. The now Republican controlled state has refused to implement any of the state-run health exchanges.
I emailed 4 families that I know in NC – they are either friends or relatives – and not all are “liberals” or “on the left” as you are so fond of labeling – none of them – let me repeat that – NONE OF THEM – report any excessive increase in their healthcare premiums – not one of their employers has dropped healthcare for their employees – not one of their employers has laid off workers due to ObamaCare. Who is “predicting” a 400% increase in healthcare premiums for NC residents? You? Ted Cruz? The Obese Drug Addict Limbaugh? Sean “Chickenshit” Hannity?
Guess you need to reach back up in your ass (if you can get past the hemorrhoids that is) and pull out some other BS and see if it will stick!
It is from the article linked by Folks, genius. But I should be more specific that rates in NC are projected to quadruple for men, bur “only” triple for women.
But what is statistical analysis in the face of your claim to have checked with 4 families? Who can argue with anecdotal evidence? It really is irrefutable.
So you are basing your claim of a 400% increase on biased article by Fits News? Can you find one person who can document their insurance increased 400% as a result of the Affordable Care Act? I’ll wait.
Reading comprehension is key. As confident as I am sure we would all be in Will’s statistical analysis, the calculation is referenced in the Forbes article LINKED by FITS.
So your answer is, No?
No to what question? Whether I am relying on a biased FITSNEWS article? Then yes, my answer is no.
You asked for it, and here it is. NC resident sees 430% spike in healthcare premium. Thanks Obama!
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/10/06/4365331/insurance-premium-increases-shock.html#.UlMqEiSkp7H
” . . . I started asking myself how long before a liberal poster attacked the messenger . . . ”
CL – All YOU ever do is attack those whom you accuse of being “liberal posters” or “liberal internet trolls”. Yes, I wondered how long before CL would be on here posting his BORINGLY PREDICTABLE BS about “liberals” and “the left”.
And where do you get your “facts” CL? Your posts read like a cut and paste from the misinformation campaign (and mostly recently 21 hours of it) from your hero, Ted Cruz.
Are you really still on here slobbering stuff like you recently posted that “Ted Cruz is smarter than anyone who posts on this site”??? LMFAO
Here is an idea for you CL – move on down to Texas and join your fellow Tea Baggers who worship The Messiah Cruz. And better yet, please join them in their desire to secede from our country – I have never in my lifetime come across folks less patriotic – you definitely deserve to go with them. Go on across the border to some of the unregulated medical clinics in Mexico for your healthcare needs Hasta la vista, baby!
Nice try Sic but you know the progressives (or those who are itching for their subsidies and free stuff) are going to appear any minute to say you are Chicken Little and the sky is not falling down.
Hell Yes. There are HufPo operatives all over the place these days.
You are right Pytel.We are Huffpost and we know where you are
Be afraid Pytel,Be VERY Afraid.
I ain’t no Repuklitard. Don’t cuss me like that.
Oh, it gets much better…the “SHOP” portion of Obamacare will not only NOT be up and running by the Oct. 1st deadline(anyone surprised?), but the actual enrollment process will have to be done by paper forms….lol…PAPER FORMS!
So tell me, what small business is going to sign up when not only can they not know what their rates would be before hand(because the exchange is not ready) but then have their people fill out forms in paper and send them in and wait?
In fact, the “new” deadline for the SHOP exchange is November, who wants to bet they miss that one too?
I seem to remember quite a few pro Obamacare people here chanting the the party refrain about it “saving money”…lol…what complete, unadulterated bullshit.
It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. Wait until further implementation hits and large swaths of private sector medical businesses are bankrupted….even better…wait till the corporate penalties kick in on tax returns and watch the number of small businesses that can’t afford to implement it close their doors. Hell, even McDonald’s is begging for an exemption.
I’m telling y’all, Obamacare is gonna do massive financial damage. The silver lining is that it will bring the Federal gov’ts economic woes to a head much more quickly.
Roy is an idiot.The internet is like the bible;you can find ‘information’ to back up anything you wanna believe..
Is it just Roy that is an idiot, remember “The internet is like the bible;you can find ‘information’ to back up anything you wanna believe..”
Gee, the Manhattan Institute criticized Obamacare! That’s news — or is it? MI consists of Wall Street and other financial services fat cats leavened with a few right-wing pundits, such as Bill Kristol, and a few corporate CEOs. It would be news if they didn’t oppose Obamacare. Avik Roy is a frequent Fox News talking head. He is a “health care expert” who previously worked as a portfolio manager and investment analyst at Bain Capital and was a consultant to Mitt Romney. He attended Yale Med School, but didn’t finish — that makes him an expert?
Don’t take it from me. Go to MI’s website and look at their Board and so-called experts.
OMG
1. Bill Kristol and Right Wing. nah.
2. WSJ has been boosting OshitforbrainsCare for months. Do you even read the dang thing? There are actually very, VERY few reporters there that could be termed Right of Center.
HufPo Operatives. Gotta love ’em. Spew it long enough and loud enough… Hell, it must be the truth..
BBBBBBBBBBwwewahahahahaahahahahaahahha
In the Republican “alternate universe” guys like Bill Kristol are raging liberals and the Rupert Murdoch rag, WSJ, is a HuffPo clone?
Its Friday.Pytel starts hitting the sauce early for the weekend.
A plan that expects people to buy insurance from private for-profit companies is socialism now?
A plan that forces people to buy insurance and then give subsidies to a few buying that insurance could be socialism.
No more socialist than spreading the costs of uninsured people around among every one else.
Then we agree, we are headed to socialism.
Calm down, people! Imagine what an army of Louis Lerners can do once deputized to control your healthcare….Partisan much? Tea Party member? No cat scan for you!
IRS…infamous for its discrimatory,predatory,partisan persecution of conservatives…now in charge of your health records…with direct access to your private bank account… feel better now, Tea Party people?
Actually the IRS already had all the information on your bank accounts, they are not in charge of health care, and the Faux News report that the IRS was targeting conservatives was discredited long ago. But feel free to continue.
pray offer evidence that the IRS didn’t target conservatives groups…Ms. Lerner is on paid leave for a reason….
IRS in charge of your intimate medical history….imagine….the possibilities for abuse are truly endless!
Avik Roy is but one man’s (economist’s) learned opinion based on his assumptions. It will be 3 to 5 years before the evidence/data/information/facts are readily available to fully analyze the affect of the Affordable Care Act on health care costs, either measured by services or by insurance premiums. Until then all health care economists are just GUESSING! Some of us are just more learned than others.
I suspect premiums would/will increase even if the Affordable Care Act were not being implemented. The difference is more low income working people will have health insurance and therefore greater access to care and that being a female is no longer an expensive pre-existing condition. Let’s see I’m predicting it will be dark at night on October 1st, can I blame that on Obamacare, too.
Excellent post.
I really think Republicans are so desperate to stop the Affordable Care Act, not because they are afraid it will not work. They would love for that to happen. They do not want to run the risk it will work, and the sky will not fall.
I have insurance now and pay $582 a month. Tuesday I can get a better policy and pay $277 a month. Yes, it’s a horrible thing.
I hope we hear a lot more stories like this.
Holy crap, batman! Or should I say Ellie Lite?! I wanna know where I can sign up for that plan! My rates are sky- rocketing! Are you a gumint employee that got an exemption? Let me know where I can sign my family up for that plan!
I think your name speaks for itself. My insurance has not gone up any more since the passage of the Affordable Care Act than before it was passed.
Robert –
Don’t waste your breath trying to tell these idiots that your premium will be less. They have been fed the lies by Fox and Friends and Limbaugh and buffoons such as Turd Cruz.
All this is about is blackmale – yes, blackmale, not blackmail. And the Black Male is President Obama and the election of the Black Male sent the Tea Baggers and the NRA (or as Bill Maher calls them “Nuts – Racists-Assholes) into outer space and into crazy-land.
What you say is 100% true. Too bad people are so easily influenced by those that peddle such nonsense as those on Fox News and others just like them.
GE just elimated 100 engineers at its turbine plant in Greenville…thanks Obamacare! The Transformation to a part-time nation continues!
Third World..here we come!
So let me get this straight, you believe that GE fired 100 Engineers, who already have group health insurance because of the Affordable Care Act.
Fox News: Obama in Plot to Force Americans to Live Longer
NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report) — In a blockbuster documentary to be broadcast tonight, the Fox News Channel alleges that Obamacare is “little more than a thinly veiled scheme to force Americans to live longer.”
The documentary, called “The Ugly Truth About Obamacare,” claims that President Obama “is cynically using the health-care law to achieve his true objective: raising the life expectancy of Americans without their consent.”
“In America, how long you live has always been your own business,” says the documentary’s narrator, Sean Hannity. “Under Obamacare, though, it’s the government’s business — a government that wants you to live as long as humanly possible.”
The documentary lays out a nightmare scenario of Americans being saddled with sky high life expectancies for years to come.
In perhaps the most chilling prediction of the documentary, Mr. Hannity warns, “If Obamacare goes into effect, Americans will be forced to live as long as people in Finland, Denmark, and other socialist countries.”
Speaking with reporters today, Mr. Hannity said he hoped that the documentary would be a “wake-up call about the secret agenda behind Obamacare.”
“President Obama is playing God with American lives,” Mr. Hannity said. “And if he stubbornly insists on making those lives longer, that could be grounds for impeachment.”
Tuomey Hospital in Sumter defrauded Medicare for $40 million and had to let go a couple of crooked execs. Damn job killing Obamacare.
Why are so many employer sponsored programs dropping dependent or spouse coverage this year? I know of three large employers in SC doing this. What is the rationale?
As President Obama recently pointed out, as soon as Obama Care is completely implemented and becomes successful and becomes popular (Medicare started off this way also), they (and you know who “they” are) will no longer want to call it Obama Care . . . .
The Affordable Care Act is LAW. President Obama was elected and re-elected. The Supreme Court has ruled it Constitutional. Get over it.