Abolish The Minimum Wage
There’s a push underway to raise America’s minimum wage. Actually, there’s a push You must Subscribe or log in to read the rest of this content.
There’s a push underway to raise America’s minimum wage. Actually, there’s a push You must Subscribe or log in to read the rest of this content.
84 comments
As a former libertarian, I see the wages of the middle class decline even with minimum wage. The buyers can’t buy “stuff” if they have no money. The haves have less if there is less stuff. If we have a true free market the ones with the means will manipulate it, it’s been going on thousands of years. I’m sure we all could debate this til the cows come home, I’ve been on both sides of the coin, with age comes wisdom and painful lessons.
Apparently not.
You Cleveland deserve to earn a “Living Wage”.
“As a former libertarian”
I call bullshit.
As a former libertarian, I see the wages of the middle class decline even with minimum wage. The buyers can’t buy “stuff” if they have no money. The haves have less if there is less stuff. If we have a true free market the ones with the means will manipulate it, it’s been going on thousands of years. I’m sure we all could debate this til the cows come home, I’ve been on both sides of the coin, with age comes wisdom and painful lessons.
Apparently not.
You Cleveland deserve to earn a “Living Wage”.
“As a former libertarian”
I call bullshit.
Interesting info at this link about minimum wage and poverty. Fuck the working poor, right? http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html
I think you should earn a “Living Wage”.
Interesting info at this link about minimum wage and poverty. Fuck the working poor, right? http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html
I think you should earn a “Living Wage”.
Somehow the economy grew for decades despite periodic increases to the minimum wage. Yes, some employers had to adjust their wages to stay in compliance with the law, but most did not.
But I do agree that setting a minimum wage isn’t the way to go. It only encourages the Wal-Marts of the world to treat their employees like crap.
The increases throughout the years have been fairly incremental. Between 1938 and 1975 it barely doubled and every time it went up you saw a corresponding spike in purchasing power that quickly tapered off though overall purchasing power remained consistently high. Since 1975, raises have spiked purchasing power but the taper has dropped back below the previous dollar value every time very quickly. In 2009 dollars, the 1968 hike to $1.50 was worth about $10 an hour, by 1975, that same $1.50 was worth $7. The 1980
hike to $3.25 was worth $9 and by 1990, that same $3.25 was worth $6.
By contrast, the 2010 hike to $7.25 has had a net purchasing power influence of – yes you guessed it, $6.50.
A freaking McDonald’s hamburger simply isn’t worth $10. If you’re paying a kid $10 an hour to make them, that’s what they’ll cost. The minimum wage manipulation is no longer having a positive effect; it’s time to try some other form of “voodoo economics”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:History_of_US_federal_minimum_wage_increases.svg
Colonel, you’re just fucking wrong…. and Frank Pytel can go suck cocks.
Where do you come up with a $10 hamburger? The prices won’t change…. they’ll make it work.
You’re obviously not the real Poor Richard of the Almanac fame:
“The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself”.
“The strictest law sometimes becomes the severest injustice.”
Benjamin Franklin
Government has no business in the agreement between an employee and an employer. OSHA , sure – but controlling wages, not so much.
Why OSHA? Can’t employees quit if they think the job is not safe? Abolish the minimum wage and allow workers to cross the boarder to work. That will result in a reset to the true value of work.
What you don’t know can kill you. MSDS, PPE and minimum safety standards for job sites are a pain in the ass generally but they have kept me alive on more than one occasion.
Somehow the economy grew for decades despite periodic increases to the minimum wage. Yes, some employers had to adjust their wages to stay in compliance with the law, but most did not.
But I do agree that setting a minimum wage isn’t the way to go. It only encourages the Wal-Marts of the world to treat their employees like crap.
The increases throughout the years have been fairly incremental. Between 1938 and 1975 it barely doubled and every time it went up you saw a corresponding spike in purchasing power that quickly tapered off though overall purchasing power remained consistently high. Since 1975, raises have spiked purchasing power but the taper has dropped back below the previous dollar value every time very quickly. In 2009 dollars, the 1968 hike to $1.50 was worth about $10 an hour, by 1975, that same $1.50 was worth $7. The 1980
hike to $3.25 was worth $9 and by 1990, that same $3.25 was worth $6.
By contrast, the 2010 hike to $7.25 has had a net purchasing power influence of – yes you guessed it, $6.50.
A freaking McDonald’s hamburger simply isn’t worth $10. If you’re paying a kid $10 an hour to make them, that’s what they’ll cost. The minimum wage manipulation is no longer having a positive effect; it’s time to try some other form of “voodoo economics”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:History_of_US_federal_minimum_wage_increases.svg
Colonel, you’re just fucking wrong…. and Frank Pytel can go suck cocks.
Where do you come up with a $10 hamburger? The prices won’t change…. they’ll make it work.
You’re obviously not the real Poor Richard of the Almanac fame:
“The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself”.
“The strictest law sometimes becomes the severest injustice.”
Benjamin Franklin
Government has no business in the agreement between an employee and an employer. OSHA , sure – but controlling wages, not so much.
Why OSHA? Can’t employees quit if they think the job is not safe? Abolish the minimum wage and allow workers to cross the boarder to work. That will result in a reset to the true value of work.
What you don’t know can kill you. MSDS, PPE and minimum safety standards for job sites are a pain in the ass generally but they have kept me alive on more than one occasion.
We could abolish the minimum wage and have people working 40+ hours a week and still living in poverty. (Wait, that already happens.)
At which point, what, instead of “meddling in the free market” via minimum wage laws, we are subsidizing business via welfare/food assistance/etc for workers that can’t earn enough to live?
Or do we abolish social safety net programs too and… subsidize business via private charities? (In the places or for the people photogenic enough to merit the whims of philanthropy? And what happens to those who can’t find a willing charity to let them eat because they can’t earn enough?)
Tavlesh, I agree.
I think you should earn a “Living Wage”.
We could abolish the minimum wage and have people working 40+ hours a week and still living in poverty. (Wait, that already happens.)
At which point, what, instead of “meddling in the free market” via minimum wage laws, we are subsidizing business via welfare/food assistance/etc for workers that can’t earn enough to live?
Or do we abolish social safety net programs too and… subsidize business via private charities? (In the places or for the people photogenic enough to merit the whims of philanthropy? And what happens to those who can’t find a willing charity to let them eat because they can’t earn enough?)
Tavlesh, I agree.
I think you should earn a “Living Wage”.
“Government should get out of the way and let markets work”. Of course, what could be simpler? And while we are on the subject of minimum wage, , why don’t we abolish those other onerous government regulations that interfere with the sacred “free market” such as child labor laws, safety standards, health regulations, gender, age, and race discrimination prohibitions and the myriad of other laws that have attempted to make the working person’s life a little more tolerable.
Dang. Forgot my shovel.
And you should earn a “Living Wage” too.
“Government should get out of the way and let markets work”. Of course, what could be simpler? And while we are on the subject of minimum wage, , why don’t we abolish those other onerous government regulations that interfere with the sacred “free market” such as child labor laws, safety standards, health regulations, gender, age, and race discrimination prohibitions and the myriad of other laws that have attempted to make the working person’s life a little more tolerable.
Dang. Forgot my shovel.
And you should earn a “Living Wage” too.
It is easy to see the superficial attraction of raising the minimum wage to idealistic minded folks:”making $15 per hour would be way better than making $7.25 an hour. Make it so.” But like many liberal policies, raising the minimum wage entails unintended consequences that end up drowning out any positive benefit that results. There simply are some jobs are not worth a livable wage. They are meant to be entry points into the workforce, to develop skills, etc. When you artificially raise the costs of those jobs for employers, they simply don’t hire the unskilled laborers who used to fill them. This disproportionately harms minorities and young workers. It a tough job market, the last thing you want to do is make it more expensive and less attractive for employers to hire more workers.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesdorn/2013/05/07/the-minimum-wage-delusion-and-the-death-of-common-sense/
100% Correct. Excellent post CL.
I would like the people calling for a “living wage” to show me who is getting a “dying wage”.
Which is why we need to stop all this anti-immigration crap, abolish the minimum wage, and open the borders. Allow people to cross the boarder to work with no promise of citizenship, or US benefits.
Flooding the labor market with even more unskilled labor will only depress wages. And I don’t think it is a good idea to import a permanent underclass of immigrants without upward mobility if they cannot achieve citizenship. But I agree on entitlement benefits. Open immigration is irreconcilable with a modern welfare state.
It is easy to see the superficial attraction of raising the minimum wage to idealistic minded folks:”making $15 per hour would be way better than making $7.25 an hour. Make it so.” But like many liberal policies, raising the minimum wage entails unintended consequences that end up drowning out any positive benefit that results. There simply are some jobs that are not worth a livable wage. They are meant to be entry points into the workforce, to develop skills, etc. When you artificially raise the costs of those jobs for employers, they simply don’t hire the unskilled laborers who used to fill them. This disproportionately harms minorities and young workers. In a tough job market, the last thing you want to do is make it more expensive and less attractive for employers to hire more workers.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesdorn/2013/05/07/the-minimum-wage-delusion-and-the-death-of-common-sense/
100% Correct. Excellent post CL.
I would like the people calling for a “living wage” to show me who is getting a “dying wage”.
Which is why we need to stop all this anti-immigration crap, abolish the minimum wage, and open the borders. Allow people to cross the boarder to work with no promise of citizenship, or US benefits.
Flooding the labor market with even more unskilled labor will only depress wages. And I don’t think it is a good idea to import a permanent underclass of immigrants without upward mobility if they cannot achieve citizenship. But I agree on entitlement benefits. Open immigration is irreconcilable with a modern welfare state.
What’s the minimum wage in Bangladesh?
Rs 115 per day. That equals roughly $1.87 Us Dollars at today’s exchange rate.
Australia, France, Japan and Ireland as opposed to Bangladesh that has no minimum wage? How about other countries that don’t have it like Haiti, or Benin? You really are a deep thinker, Colonel.
I think you (and every fracking libitard on the planet) should make a “Living Wage” according to the DC city counsel. Politicians should be paid less.
Why should politicans be paid at all? It should be considered a duty to hold public office…to paraphrase a Gen. Sherman quote..I will run if nominated and I will serve if elected…just without pay. Take the $$ luxeries and priveleges out of the equation and see who wants to run.
Good Points. I agree. I would.
Of course there will still be plenty of people to run. There are plenty of ways to be compensated without getting a government salary, government health care, and government retirement. Just ask people like the Koch Brothers and Howie Rich. They know how to make sure politicians get paid.
Dipstick – Bangladesh’s minimum wage is 1,800 Taka per month. Who give’s a flying flip what the minmum wage in Haiti is (*$817 US dollars per year btw) or Benin (*$65 USD per month)
I was answering Bubblehead’s question about the minimum wage in Bangladesh. Not sure what got your panties in a wad but have a nice day or piss off and die, whatever floats your boat.
“Those countries are doing so well …”
Well I would rather live in Australia, France, Japan or Ireland, than Bangladesh Haiti or Benin.
too much
too much as defined by what? Employers don’t have to worry about the safety of their employees, yet the employees are paid too much?
Too much because I deserve, and only I, deserve to pay less.
You on the other hand deserve a “Living Wage”
What’s the minimum wage in Bangladesh?
India – 115 Rupees per day. That equals roughly $1.87 US Dollars at today’s exchange rate.
Bangladesh – 1,800 Taka per month. That’s roughly $23 per month at today’s exchange rate
China – 530-1620 Yuan per month. That’s roughly $86-$262 per month based on where you live/work.
Australia has the highest in the world at about $33, 000 a year, we’re 10th or 11th depending on how you count it at $15,000 a year. Countries ahead of us? Ireland ($22,500 per year) France ($22,000 per year) Japan ($16,000) and those countries are doing so well…
Australia, France, Japan and Ireland as opposed to Bangladesh that has no minimum wage? How about other countries that don’t have it like Haiti, or Benin? You really are a deep thinker, Colonel.
I think you (and every fracking libitard on the planet) should make a “Living Wage” according to the DC city counsel. Politicians should be paid less.
Why should politicans be paid at all? It should be considered a duty to hold public office…to paraphrase a Gen. Sherman quote..I will run if nominated and I will serve if elected…just without pay. Take the $$ luxeries and priveleges out of the equation and see who wants to run.
Good Points. I agree. I would.
Of course there will still be plenty of people to run. There are plenty of ways to be compensated without getting a government salary, government health care, and government retirement. Just ask people like the Koch Brothers and Howie Rich. They know how to make sure politicians get paid.
Dipstick – Bangladesh’s minimum wage is 1,800 Taka per month. Who give’s a flying flip what the minmum wage in Haiti is (*$817 US dollars per year btw) or Benin (*$65 USD per month)
I was answering Bubblehead’s question about the minimum wage in Bangladesh. Not sure what got your panties in a wad but have a nice day or piss off and die, whatever floats your boat.
“Those countries are doing so well …”
Well I would rather live in Australia, France, Japan or Ireland, than Bangladesh Haiti or Benin.
too much
too much as defined by what? Employers don’t have to worry about the safety of their employees, yet the employees are paid too much?
Too much because I deserve, and only I, deserve to pay less.
You on the other hand deserve a “Living Wage”
The minimum wage doesn’t need to be $15, but it should be a bit higher than what it is now. It used to be as high as $10/hr. adjusted to today’s currency. Regardless of what it should or shouldn’t be, it should be adjusted yearly based on inflation.
The real question is, why abolish minimum wage? So people can work for less than $7.25 an hour? Less than $5.15 an hour? Yeah, maybe you can hire two people for what you’d have to pay for one with minimum wage, but that doesn’t improve the lot in life that those two people have. Furthermore, that doesn’t help those people be self sufficient. It doesn’t afford them health insurance. It doesn’t help them afford retirement. It doesn’t help them afford more of anything. It just further makes them dependent on government for food, health care, and eventually retirement living.
Of course, that’s even if you believe in those things. If you believe in no government intervention, you really are condemning those people to suffer. Before various welfare programs, people just didn’t get shit and lived in poverty.
And, let’s be honest, stop with this “Well they chose the wrong career” shit. There isn’t a high paying job available for every damn person on the planet, and even if there was, not everyone is capable of performing high paying jobs. Some people really are given the short end of the stick and flipping burgers is about the highest order they can achieve. Minimum wages aren’t built to make their life luxurious. The idea of a living wage is just that, paying someone enough so that they can pay for the necessities of life on their own.
How someone in their right mind could preach self-sufficiency by demanding there not be a floor for how low they can actually be paid is beyond me. Ask someone who has to work two full-time minimum wage jobs if getting paid less is going to help them. No, seriously, ask them. You may want to block the ensuing punch.
Because SNARKS KNOWS ALL! The perfect wage, comment and everything else.
The minimum wage doesn’t need to be $15, but it should be a bit higher than what it is now. It used to be as high as $10/hr. adjusted to today’s currency. Regardless of what it should or shouldn’t be, it should be adjusted yearly based on inflation.
The real question is, why abolish minimum wage? So people can work for less than $7.25 an hour? Less than $5.15 an hour? Yeah, maybe you can hire two people for what you’d have to pay for one with minimum wage, but that doesn’t improve the lot in life that those two people have. Furthermore, that doesn’t help those people be self sufficient. It doesn’t afford them health insurance. It doesn’t help them afford retirement. It doesn’t help them afford more of anything. It just further makes them dependent on government for food, health care, and eventually retirement living.
Of course, that’s even if you believe in those things. If you believe in no government intervention, you really are condemning those people to suffer. Before various welfare programs, people just didn’t get shit and lived in poverty.
And, let’s be honest, stop with this “Well they chose the wrong career” shit. There isn’t a high paying job available for every damn person on the planet, and even if there was, not everyone is capable of performing high paying jobs. Some people really are given the short end of the stick and flipping burgers is about the highest order they can achieve. Minimum wages aren’t built to make their life luxurious. The idea of a living wage is just that, paying someone enough so that they can pay for the necessities of life on their own.
How someone in their right mind could preach self-sufficiency by demanding there not be a floor for how low they can actually be paid is beyond me. Ask someone who has to work two full-time minimum wage jobs if getting paid less is going to help them. No, seriously, ask them. You may want to block the ensuing punch.
Because SNARKS KNOWS ALL! The perfect wage, comment and everything else.
Hard to have a functioning economy if no one has any money to, you know, actually buy things. Absurd that we are even having the discussion on abolishing the minimum wage.
I agree. The minimum wage destroys the economy. There should be no discussion about its abolition. It should have never been instituted.
Hard to have a functioning economy if no one has any money to, you know, actually buy things. Absurd that we are even having the discussion on abolishing the minimum wage.
I agree. The minimum wage destroys the economy. There should be no discussion about its abolition. It should have never been instituted.
Mexico is already dumping out its criminals on our border to come in the country and and do the jobs that fat lazy Americans won’t do…Who is going to work at McDonalds, Kangaroo, or the SCDOR if they won’t even pay the pittance that they do now?
So Norma, what do you do?
Generally sit around bitch a lot, and read others who are doing the same. You?
Mexico is already dumping out its criminals on our border to come in the country and and do the jobs that fat lazy Americans won’t do…Who is going to work at McDonalds, Kangaroo, or the SCDOR if they won’t even pay the pittance that they do now?
So Norma, what do you do?
Generally sit around bitch a lot, and read others who are doing the same. You?
Free markets would give pennies a day for work like in 3rd world nations. Business owners rightly or wrongly have a direct interest in keeping as much of their own money as possible. They will not voluntarily give up their own money. I say go ahead and let entrepreneurs pay as little as they want but they need to be prepared for social unrest. Also they should not go to church and call themselves Christians.
Free markets would give pennies a day for work like in 3rd world nations. Business owners rightly or wrongly have a direct interest in keeping as much of their own money as possible. They will not voluntarily give up their own money. I say go ahead and let entrepreneurs pay as little as they want but they need to be prepared for social unrest. Also they should not go to church and call themselves Christians.