SC

The Episcopal Civil War Gets Personal

The schism in the Episcopal Church got personal recently when the rump diocese of South Carolina – a.k.a. those Episcopalians who chose to stay with the national church – released a list of their enemies. Specifically, this list included the names of 103 Episcopal priests and deacons in the Palmetto…

The schism in the Episcopal Church got personal recently when the rump diocese of South Carolina – a.k.a. those Episcopalians who chose to stay with the national church – released a list of their enemies.

Specifically, this list included the names of 103 Episcopal priests and deacons in the Palmetto State who, according to the rump diocese, have “abandoned the church.”

(You can access the list here, if you’re interested).

Last November, a group of churches led by bishop Mark Lawrence of Charleston, S.C. seceded from the national Episcopal Church over a dispute regarding the blessing of homosexual unions and the ordination of openly gay clergy.

The national church supports these policies, the local bishops do not …

We’ve been following this drama for some time. In fact FITS was the first media outlet to report on this brewing schism back in October of last year. Also, we wrote not long ago on some of the bizarre comments made by the national Episcopal church’s leader – liberal bishop Katharine Jefferts-Schori.

Anyway … as we’ve said from the beginning of this drama, we don’t care if churches sanction gay marriage – or if they let homosexuals preach from their pulpits.  We don’t support either practice – but we believe such decisions should be left to individual congregations.

***

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69 comments

Same ol' Same ol' July 11, 2013 at 5:55 pm

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. Diderot.

Reply
Frank Pytel July 12, 2013 at 8:39 am

Close. The last king strangled.

Reply
jimlewisowb July 11, 2013 at 5:55 pm

My understanding is the Inquisition was created through papal bull, Ad Abolendam

I can no reason why Bishop Katharine Jefferts-Schori can’t do the same.

Mr recommendation is that the trials and burnings be held in Death Valley given the facts of:

appropriateness of its name
its often reference as being Hell on Earth
its track record of losing the big one

I know the last one doesn’t quite fit, but thought willie needed a little lift

Reply
Same ol' Same ol' July 11, 2013 at 5:55 pm

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. Diderot.

Reply
Frank Pytel July 12, 2013 at 8:39 am

Close. The last king strangled.

Reply
jimlewisowb July 11, 2013 at 5:55 pm

My

Reply
GCE July 11, 2013 at 6:08 pm

It’s
just a list of clergy who have been officially acknowledged by the
church authority as having abandoned the church according to how they
define abandoning the church, and revoking their authority to minister
in said church. It’s an internal formality. There is no indication
anywhere (other than FITSNEWS’ imagination) that the document
constitutes an “enemies list.” FITS has come out with some stuff
earlier than other news outlets but it is also in the habit of spinning
things on par with the likes of the National Enquirer….. No I’m not
Episcopal. I don’t particularly care that they split the church over
this issue – churches have split over issues for centuries….It’s just
irritating to see something so innocuous trumped up into something so
sinister-sounding…..it’s just stupid…

Reply
GCE July 11, 2013 at 6:08 pm

It’s
just a list of clergy who have been officially acknowledged by the
church authority as having abandoned the church according to how they
define abandoning the church, and revoking their authority to minister
in said church. It’s an internal formality. There is no indication
anywhere (other than FITSNEWS’ imagination) that the document
constitutes an “enemies list.” FITS has come out with some stuff
earlier than other news outlets but it is also in the habit of spinning
things on par with the likes of the National Enquirer….. No I’m not
Episcopal. I don’t particularly care that they split the church over
this issue – churches have split over issues for centuries….It’s just
irritating to see something so innocuous trumped up into something so
sinister-sounding…..it’s just stupid…

Reply
GrandTango July 11, 2013 at 6:11 pm

They abandoned the Church of Satan…they’ll be fine…

And look on the bright side, FITS: It gives you an opportunity to move in and become a priest.

Reply
mph July 12, 2013 at 1:14 pm

Crap, I was raised in the “Church of Satan.” I always heard it referred to the “Republican Party at Prayer.” Maybe sock puppet us on to something.

After all, If anything says pro-Satan/anti-Jesus, it’s compassion and tolerance.

Reply
CNSYD July 11, 2013 at 6:14 pm

Sic Willie, if you are desirous of a church where the local congregation makes ALL its own decisions, then become a Baptist.

Reply
Jesus H. Christ! July 12, 2013 at 9:33 am

He wouldn’t do that. The Baptists aren’t hip enough. No, the Episcopalian Church is the one for social climbers.

Reply
CNSYD July 11, 2013 at 6:14 pm

Sic Willie, if you are desirous of a church where the local congregation makes ALL its own decisions, then become a Baptist.

Reply
Jesus H. Christ! July 12, 2013 at 9:33 am

He wouldn’t do that. The Baptists aren’t hip enough. No, the Episcopalian Church is the one for social climbers.

Reply
RHood2 July 11, 2013 at 6:21 pm

You weren’t the first to report on the schism.
AP had it a couple of months earlier.

Reply
CNSYD July 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm

Since the AP is, to Sic Willie, the msm, they don’t count. Hard to believe that Sic Willie would stack a deck in his favor.

Reply
RHood2 July 11, 2013 at 6:21 pm

You weren’t the first to report on the schism.
AP had it a couple of months earlier.

Reply
CNSYD July 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm

Since the AP is, to Sic Willie, the msm, they don’t count. Hard to believe that Sic Willie would stack a deck in his favor.

Reply
Sarah Palin Forever! July 11, 2013 at 6:32 pm

Why would it bother you Fits that a Gay person would attend school,major in theology become a “Priest” ( a profession) ,be “ordained” (hired) and then prepare a short speech((sermon) once a week usually to read to the audience(congregation) on Sundays?

Reply
Sarah Palin Forever! July 11, 2013 at 6:32 pm

Why would it bother you Fits that a Gay person would attend school,major in theology become a “Priest” ( a profession) ,be “ordained” (hired) and then prepare a short speech((sermon) once a week usually to read to the audience(congregation) on Sundays?

Reply
John Boy July 11, 2013 at 6:48 pm

Not this shit again.

Reply
John Boy July 11, 2013 at 6:48 pm

Not this shit again.

Reply
Polyphemos July 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm

You know what? Screw it. I just wrote this long treatise with research citations and I’ve just erased it. Being gay isn’t a sin. Sodomy is the sin. Period. I can marry a tree, but it won’t be the sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

Reply
Slartibartfast July 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm

You know what? Screw it. I just wrote this long treatise with research citations and I’ve just erased it. Being gay isn’t a sin. Sodomy is the sin. Period. I can marry a tree, but it won’t be the sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

Reply
The Orthodox Christian July 11, 2013 at 6:55 pm

“. . . but we believe such decisions should be left to individual congregations.”

Well, that’s what the “secession” congregations did, and the legal fight is over which ones — the secessionists or the non-secessionists — owns various property.

“Various property” includes not just the individual churches and attached cemeteries, but also Camp Saint Christopher on Seabrook Island (http://www.stchristopher.org/), Pompion Hill Chapel in Huger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompion_Hill_Chapel), and the shield of the Episcopal Church (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shield_of_the_US_Episcopal_Church.svg).

A friend told me, “Mark Lawrence came here to South Carolina (as our bishop) with this secession in mind,” and indeed he has spearheaded it.

The “time line of christian church history” (http://www.stathanasios.com/ATimeLine.html) shows that since the “great schism” in 1054, it has been fracturing into smaller and smaller particles — denominations.

Myself, I’ve started attending the original (“orthodox”) church, http://www.ocacharleston.org/.

Contrary to my opinion, the Orthodox Church doesn’t tolerate gay priests or marriages, but the topic hasn’t come up there, and there I find God’s peace.

Instead of “church” I think the better word in this schism debate is “congregation.”

#####

ecclesia – ???????? (Strong’s #1577) – an assembly of the called

This word is used 118 times in the Greek New Testament.

Our study is from the Lord’s usage of the term when He said; “upon this rock I
will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against
it” (Matthew 16:18).

The Greek word ???????? (Strong’s #1577), translated “church” in our text is a compound word from the preposition ?? (Strong’s #1537), “out of, forth” and the verb ????? (Strong’s #2564), “to call;” thus, literally, “the called out.”

. . .

The word “church” not only expresses the called out feature of believers in Christ but it also is described in three different classifications in the New Testament:

1st) in the general sense, it includes, the whole church, all of the Lord’s faithful followers on earth (Matthew 16:18), comprised of one church, as there is but one body of Christ (Ephesians 4:4-6);

2nd) in the local or geographical sense, it designates congregations of faithful believers banded together for the purpose of worship and service to God, such as, “the church of God which is at Corinth” (1 Corinthians 1:2); “the churches of Galatia” (Galatians 1:2); “the church of the Thessalonians” (1 Thessalonians 1:1); or, a group of such congregations not otherwise geographically identified: “All the churches of Christ salute you” (Romans 16:16); and

3rd) in a congregational (assembled) sense, it designates an assembly of Christians, convened for religious ends (1 Corinthians 14:34, 35). Thus, there is a general sense, a geographical sense, and a congregational (assembled) sense in which the word finds usage in the New Testament.

http://www.studylight.org/ls/gt/index.cgi?a=4

#####

See also:

+++++

Churches are Businesses

All Churches, including the incorporated Church, unincorporated Church, unregistered Church, etc., are under the jurisdiction of man.

These Churches define themselves in particular ways that you do not find in scripture.

In other words, Christ did not define his ekklesia to be those things.

These designations were created by the natural man, because Christ never defines His ekklesia to be incorporated or unincorporated.

The laws of man have jurisdiction over the Church because they are man-made terms, and man has jurisdiction over man-made things.

Whoever creates something is the same who controls something, and he retains the authority and the power to alter or destroy at will.

So, if man creates an organization, no matter what he calls it, then man controls it.

If God creates an organization, then He is the one who should control it.

+++++

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/ekklesia.html

> > > > >

THIS is worth the time to hear (Public Radio International, July 10, 2013):
“Conservative LA Synagogue to Perform Gay Marriages Angering Some Congregation Members”

http://www.theworld.org/2013/07/la-synagogue-gay-marriage/

Reply
The Orthodox Christian July 11, 2013 at 6:55 pm

“. . . but we believe such decisions should be left to individual congregations.”

Well, that’s what the “secession” congregations did, and the legal fight is over which ones — the secessionists or the non-secessionists — owns various property.

“Various property” includes not just the individual churches and attached cemeteries, but also Camp Saint Christopher on Seabrook Island (http://www.stchristopher.org/), Pompion Hill Chapel in Huger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompion_Hill_Chapel), and the shield of the Episcopal Church (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shield_of_the_US_Episcopal_Church.svg).

A friend told me, “Mark Lawrence came here to South Carolina (as our bishop) with this secession in mind,” and indeed he has spearheaded it.

The “time line of christian church history” (http://www.stathanasios.com/ATimeLine.html) shows that since the “great schism” in 1054, it has been fracturing into smaller and smaller particles — denominations.

Myself, I’ve started attending the original (“orthodox”) church, http://www.ocacharleston.org/.

Contrary to my opinion, the Orthodox Church doesn’t tolerate gay priests or marriages, but the topic hasn’t come up there, and there I find God’s peace.

Instead of “church” I think the better word in this schism debate is “congregation.”

#####

ecclesia – ???????? (Strong’s #1577) – an assembly of the called

This word is used 118 times in the Greek New Testament.

Our study is from the Lord’s usage of the term when He said; “upon this rock I
will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against
it” (Matthew 16:18).

The Greek word ???????? (Strong’s #1577), translated “church” in our text is a compound word from the preposition ?? (Strong’s #1537), “out of, forth” and the verb ????? (Strong’s #2564), “to call;” thus, literally, “the called out.”

. . .

The word “church” not only expresses the called out feature of believers in Christ but it also is described in three different classifications in the New Testament:

1st) in the general sense, it includes, the whole church, all of the Lord’s faithful followers on earth (Matthew 16:18), comprised of one church, as there is but one body of Christ (Ephesians 4:4-6);

2nd) in the local or geographical sense, it designates congregations of faithful believers banded together for the purpose of worship and service to God, such as, “the church of God which is at Corinth” (1 Corinthians 1:2); “the churches of Galatia” (Galatians 1:2); “the church of the Thessalonians” (1 Thessalonians 1:1); or, a group of such congregations not otherwise geographically identified: “All the churches of Christ salute you” (Romans 16:16); and

3rd) in a congregational (assembled) sense, it designates an assembly of Christians, convened for religious ends (1 Corinthians 14:34, 35). Thus, there is a general sense, a geographical sense, and a congregational (assembled) sense in which the word finds usage in the New Testament.

http://www.studylight.org/ls/gt/index.cgi?a=4

#####

See also:

+++++

Churches are Businesses

All Churches, including the incorporated Church, unincorporated Church, unregistered Church, etc., are under the jurisdiction of man.

These Churches define themselves in particular ways that you do not find in scripture.

In other words, Christ did not define his ekklesia to be those things.

These designations were created by the natural man, because Christ never defines His ekklesia to be incorporated or unincorporated.

The laws of man have jurisdiction over the Church because they are man-made terms, and man has jurisdiction over man-made things.

Whoever creates something is the same who controls something, and he retains the authority and the power to alter or destroy at will.

So, if man creates an organization, no matter what he calls it, then man controls it.

If God creates an organization, then He is the one who should control it.

+++++

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/ekklesia.html

> > > > >

THIS is worth the time to hear (Public Radio International, July 10, 2013):
“Conservative LA Synagogue to Perform Gay Marriages Angering Some Congregation Members”

http://www.theworld.org/2013/07/la-synagogue-gay-marriage/

Reply
Noah's Ark July 11, 2013 at 7:10 pm

The situation is sad, but was necessary. What’s baffling is that the Upper Diocese of South Carolina remains so liberal in doctrine and theology. I am not sure the majority of Episcopalians in Upper SC are in communion with their diocese if they really knew what their leaders are promoting.

Reply
Jan July 16, 2013 at 7:01 pm

This is nonsense.

Reply
Noah's Ark July 11, 2013 at 7:10 pm

The situation is sad, but was necessary. What’s baffling is that the Upper Diocese of South Carolina remains so liberal in doctrine and theology. I am not sure the majority of Episcopalians in Upper SC are in communion with their diocese if they really knew what their leaders are promoting.

Reply
Jan July 16, 2013 at 7:01 pm

This is nonsense.

Reply
Noah's Ark July 11, 2013 at 7:29 pm

Will, this fight has little or nothing to do with the homosexual agenda. This fight is based on liberal theology and a National Church hierarchy that continues to target conservatives and those Episcopalians who subscribe to a traditional orthodox Christian bible-based theology. It goes back to the glory days of the liberal National Council of Churches in the sixties, a new Book of Common Prayer adopted in the 70s which many Episcopalians considered a travesty, as well as a prayer book for dummies. A Book of Common Prayer which butchered the King’s English and replaced the beautiful flow of Shakespearean English so many of us loved. Then you add a multitude of liberal causes to the litany to the mix and you have basis for a good old fashion schism.

Reply
The Orthodox Christian July 11, 2013 at 9:25 pm

By “the beautiful flow of Shakespearean English,” do you refer to the King James Bible?

If so, please list some verses of the KJV that you find more beautiful than those in the Revised Standard Version that are in the 1979 Anglican Book of Common Prayer (which you call a “travesty”).

Reply
Noah's Ark July 11, 2013 at 7:29 pm

Will, this fight has little or nothing to do with the homosexual agenda. This fight is based on liberal theology and a National Church hierarchy that continues to target conservatives and those Episcopalians who subscribe to a traditional orthodox Christian bible-based theology. It goes back to the glory days of the liberal National Council of Churches in the sixties, a new Book of Common Prayer adopted in the 70s which many Episcopalians considered a travesty, as well as a prayer book for dummies. A Book of Common Prayer which butchered the King’s English and replaced the beautiful flow of Shakespearean English so many of us loved. Then you add a multitude of liberal causes to the litany to the mix and you have basis for a good old fashion schism.

Reply
The Orthodox Christian July 11, 2013 at 9:25 pm

By “the beautiful flow of Shakespearean English,” do you refer to the King James Bible?

If so, please list some verses of the KJV that you find more beautiful than those in the Revised Standard Version that are in the 1979 Anglican Book of Common Prayer (which you call a “travesty”).

Reply
Episcopalian July 11, 2013 at 7:52 pm

You may believe that each congregation should decide, but you can’t be an Episcopalian and believe that. A hierarchical church organization is a defining characteristic of the denomination.

Reply
usc1801 July 17, 2013 at 2:46 am

Actually the Diocese of S.C. predates the national church. The national church has thumbed its nose at the Anglican Communion and is likely to be expelled. Perhaps you can explain why more than 1/2 of the members of the church have left.

Reply
Episcopalian July 11, 2013 at 7:52 pm

You may believe that each congregation should decide, but you can’t be an Episcopalian and believe that. A hierarchical church organization is a defining characteristic of the denomination.

Reply
usc1801 July 17, 2013 at 2:46 am

Actually the Diocese of S.C. predates the national church. The national church has thumbed its nose at the Anglican Communion and is likely to be expelled. Perhaps you can explain why more than 1/2 of the members of the church have left.

Reply
Derp July 11, 2013 at 8:37 pm

So, an institution based on complete bullshit split into two institutions based on complete bullshit? Who cares? There are over 30,000 different sects of christianity. Now there are over 30,001 flavors of nonsense to choose from. Enjoy, suckers.

Reply
Comrade1917 July 11, 2013 at 9:49 pm

Derp the Demon?

Reply
Derp July 12, 2013 at 8:59 pm

lol. Pazuzu is the name of the demon who possesed Linda Blair in The Excorcist. And just like the christian concept of god, pazuzu does not exist. :-)

Reply
The Orthodox Christian July 11, 2013 at 11:35 pm

Derp, Your comments reveal that you’ve become totally disenchanted with “the church,” and that is completely understandable. Many churches are merely social watering holes where, for instance, real estate agents flock for sales leads, divorce lawyers flock for divorce clients, and a very few for real spiritual nourishment. You are totally normal.

I have some recommendations to ensure that your opinion is not misplaced and that, one day, when you are staring at death, you do not suddenly realize that maybe you missed out on ever knowing God. It is tough to know God, and to pray, and to find real Christians. (I can count the ones I know on two hands.)

1) Watch an intelligent debate that occurred at UNC – Chapel Hill in 2011 between two brilliant scholars — one agnostic and one committed — “Bart Ehrman versus Daniel Wallace,” at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-dJA3SnTA.

Ehrman, with degrees from Princeton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman), claims that the New Testament is so riddled with errors that it is ludicrous to consider as the word of God. Wallace, with degrees from Dallas Theological Seminary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_B._Wallace), founded the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_the_Study_of_New_Testament_Manuscripts), explains how the 27 canonical books were chosen, and why so many others were considered “non-apostolic” and not reliable.

I consider both men equals in their mastery of the Koine Greek, Hebrew (Wallace’s grammar is the leading one in the world for 2nd-year seminarians, http://www.amazon.com/Grammar-Beyond-Basics-Daniel-Wallace/dp/0310280001/ref=sr_1_22?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373599768&sr=1-22), Aramaic, and Latin.

2) Listen, for intelligent (not evangelistic) discussion of the New Testament, the lectures by Prof. William Mounce (a member of the NIV translation committee) at http://www.biblicaltraining.org/new-testament/william-bill-mounce. Mounce’s 1st-year Greek Grammar is the most widely used in the world. http://www.amazon.com/Basics-Biblical-Grammar-William-Mounce/dp/0310287685/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373599899&sr=1-1&keywords=william+mounce

3) Lastly, I can recommend a seminary-level textbook that any careful-reading adult can comprehend: An Introduction to the New Testament, by Carson and Moo, 2005, Zondervan. http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-New-Testament-D-Carson/dp/0310238595/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373598876&sr=1-1&keywords=an+introduction+to+the+new+testament It’s recommended by the Duke and Fuller Theological Seminaries, and I’m reading it now, learning something new with every paragraph.

Agape, my brother.

Reply
AnnieWho July 12, 2013 at 7:33 am

I find anything by CS Lewis to be interesting for someone trying to reconcile faith and intellect. Mere Christianity is a good start.

Reply
The Orthodox Christian July 12, 2013 at 7:47 am

Outstanding recommendation.

Reply
Derp July 12, 2013 at 11:37 am

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I have no faith in christianity or literal interepretations of the bible. Both have been used to manipulate people into evil for centuries. If people could be steered away from religious institutions we could maybe deal with the problems of this world in a more meaningful way. Best to you…

Reply
usc1801 July 17, 2013 at 2:49 am

I see you too have based your life on complete bullshit.

Reply
Derp July 11, 2013 at 8:37 pm

So, an institution based on complete bullshit split into two institutions based on complete bullshit? Who cares? There are over 30,000 different sects of christianity. Now there are over 30,001 flavors of nonsense to choose from. Enjoy, suckers.

Reply
Comrade1917 July 11, 2013 at 9:49 pm

Derp the Demon? … Is that you? … Are you tired of molesting Linda Blair?

Reply
Derp July 12, 2013 at 8:59 pm

lol. Pazuzu is the name of the demon who possesed Linda Blair in The Excorcist. And just like the christian concept of god, pazuzu does not exist. :-)

Reply
The Orthodox Christian July 11, 2013 at 11:35 pm

Derp, Your comments reveal that you’ve become totally disenchanted with “the church,” and that is completely understandable. Many churches are merely social watering holes where, for instance, real estate agents flock for sales leads, divorce lawyers flock for divorce clients, and a very few for real spiritual nourishment. You are totally normal.

I have some recommendations to ensure that your opinion is not misplaced and that, one day, when you are staring at death, you do not suddenly realize that maybe you missed out on ever knowing God. It is tough to know God, and to pray, and to find real Christians. (I can count the ones I know on two hands.)

1) Watch an intelligent debate that occurred at UNC – Chapel Hill in 2011 between two brilliant scholars — one agnostic and one committed — “Bart Ehrman versus Daniel Wallace,” at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-dJA3SnTA.

Ehrman, with degrees from Princeton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman), claims that the New Testament is so riddled with errors that it is ludicrous to consider as the word of God. Wallace, with degrees from Dallas Theological Seminary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_B._Wallace), founded the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_the_Study_of_New_Testament_Manuscripts), explains how the 27 canonical books were chosen, and why so many others were considered “non-apostolic” and not reliable.

I consider both men equals in their mastery of the Koine Greek, Hebrew (Wallace’s grammar is the leading one in the world for 2nd-year seminarians, http://www.amazon.com/Grammar-Beyond-Basics-Daniel-Wallace/dp/0310280001/ref=sr_1_22?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373599768&sr=1-22), Aramaic, and Latin.

2) Listen, for intelligent (not evangelistic) discussion of the New Testament, the lectures by Prof. William Mounce (a member of the NIV translation committee) at http://www.biblicaltraining.org/new-testament/william-bill-mounce. Mounce’s 1st-year Greek Grammar is the most widely used in the world. http://www.amazon.com/Basics-Biblical-Grammar-William-Mounce/dp/0310287685/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373599899&sr=1-1&keywords=william+mounce

3) Lastly, I can recommend a seminary-level textbook that any careful-reading adult can comprehend: An Introduction to the New Testament, by Carson and Moo, 2005, Zondervan. http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-New-Testament-D-Carson/dp/0310238595/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373598876&sr=1-1&keywords=an+introduction+to+the+new+testament It’s recommended by the Duke and Fuller Theological Seminaries, and I’m reading it now, learning something new with every paragraph.

Agape, my brother.

Reply
AnnieWho July 12, 2013 at 7:33 am

I find anything by CS Lewis to be interesting for someone trying to reconcile faith and intellect. Mere Christianity is a good start.

Reply
The Orthodox Christian July 12, 2013 at 7:47 am

Outstanding recommendation.

Reply
Derp July 12, 2013 at 11:37 am

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I have no faith in christianity or literal interepretations of the bible. Both have been used to manipulate people into evil for centuries. If people could be steered away from religious institutions we could maybe deal with the problems of this world in a more meaningful way. Best to you…

Reply
usc1801 July 17, 2013 at 2:49 am

I see you too have based your life on complete bullshit.

Reply
guest July 12, 2013 at 9:00 am

Hey, its a Right to Work state so they lose. Simple enough.

Reply
guest July 12, 2013 at 9:00 am

Hey, its a Right to Work state so they lose. Simple enough.

Reply
lawzoo July 12, 2013 at 9:22 am

Wow. I’d like to go back to the time when Episcopalians were the rich folks who went to Church of the Advent.
Now they’re fighting over gays? I liked them a lot better when $$$ was the topic!

Reply
Guest July 12, 2013 at 11:27 am

Me, too! I left Advent about the time that “The Jolly Green Giant” replaced the 1928 BCP. Moved to Columbia and married a Presby. Just in time for them to go into “Reunion”.

Can’t fight from without. We need to “put on the armor” and “wield the sword of the Holy Spirit” as Paul says, and fight from within.

Christians are supposed to emulate the teachings of Jesus, and I (among many) believe it is time to “cleanse the Temple”.

As noted by someone else above, I am prepared to say that being “Gay” is not the sin – the Sodomy is the sin. [I wonder why the practice was named after the city that was destroyed??]

Reply
lawzoo July 12, 2013 at 9:22 am

Wow. I’d like to go back to the time when Episcopalians were the rich folks who went to Church of the Advent.
Now they’re fighting over gays? I liked them a lot better when $$$ was the topic!

Reply
Guest July 12, 2013 at 11:27 am

Me, too! I left Advent about the time that “The Jolly Green Giant” replaced the 1928 BCP. Moved to Columbia and married a Presby. Just in time for them to go into “Reunion”.

Can’t fight from without. We need to “put on the armor” and “wield the sword of the Holy Spirit” as Paul says, and fight from within.

Christians are supposed to emulate the teachings of Jesus, and I (among many) believe it is time to “cleanse the Temple”.

As noted by someone else above, I am prepared to say that being “Gay” is not the sin – the Sodomy is the sin. [I wonder why the practice was named after the city that was destroyed??]

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nitrat July 12, 2013 at 3:19 pm

I can’t figure out why THIS hateful little website is interested in anything any church does anywhere.
If anyone affiliated with this site calls themselves a Christian, I do hope they have enough insight to realize what hypocrites they are.

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nitrat July 12, 2013 at 3:19 pm

I can’t figure out why THIS hateful little website is interested in anything any church does anywhere.
If anyone affiliated with this site calls themselves a Christian, I do hope they have enough insight to realize what hypocrites they are.

Reply
Jan July 16, 2013 at 6:56 pm

You are totally ignorant on this issue. Of course they have abandoned the church. They do not deny it. This is not personal, it is a factual list of former Episcopal priests and deacons who are no longer Episcopal priests or deacons.

I know facts confuse you so I will try to go slow. If you are a priest in a church and you quit that church, you are no longer a priest in that church. Your use of the word “Rump” shows your prejudice in this regard. There is only one Diocese of The Episcopal Church in the lower part of South Carolina. The priests and deacons listed are now members of another church. They are Lawrencians or whatever they ultimately choose to call themselves. But they are not priests or deacons of the Episcopal Church. Consequently their baptisms, weddings, confirmations, etc. have no meaning outside of Lawrence’s Church. That is why there has to be a list, so that other members of The Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion know whether someone has been Baptized, Confirmed, etc. by a credentialed Priest. Each hierarchal church has a list of people who are authorized to administer Sacraments, and in the eyes of the Episcopal Church, these folks no longer have that authority.

To bring this home for you. When Jim Demit abandoned his public office to take a job with a private company he stopped being a US Senator. He can no longer exercise the powers of that office he is no longer on the list of Senators who can vote.

Lawrences’ Church wants to retain the name and property of the Diocese because they are afraid without those they will not be able to hold together. And they are probably correct. So they are fighting to do so. That has nothing to do with this. This is about the standing of the listed individuals in the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion.

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Jan July 16, 2013 at 6:56 pm

You are totally ignorant on this issue. Of course they have abandoned the church. They do not deny it. This is not personal, it is a factual list of former Episcopal priests and deacons who are no longer Episcopal priests or deacons.

I know facts confuse you so I will try to go slow. If you are a priest in a church and you quit that church, you are no longer a priest in that church. Your use of the word “Rump” shows your prejudice in this regard. There is only one Diocese of The Episcopal Church in the lower part of South Carolina. The priests and deacons listed are now members of another church. They are Lawrencians or whatever they ultimately choose to call themselves. But they are not priests or deacons of the Episcopal Church. Consequently their baptisms, weddings, confirmations, etc. have no meaning outside of Lawrence’s Church. That is why there has to be a list, so that other members of The Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion know whether someone has been Baptized, Confirmed, etc. by a credentialed Priest. Each hierarchal church has a list of people who are authorized to administer Sacraments, and in the eyes of the Episcopal Church, these folks no longer have that authority.

To bring this home for you. When Jim Demit abandoned his public office to take a job with a private company he stopped being a US Senator. He can no longer exercise the powers of that office he is no longer on the list of Senators who can vote.

Lawrences’ Church wants to retain the name and property of the Diocese because they are afraid without those they will not be able to hold together. And they are probably correct. So they are fighting to do so. That has nothing to do with this. This is about the standing of the listed individuals in the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion.

Reply
9" July 18, 2013 at 3:58 am

What if they let homosexuals have sex with a ‘man of the cloth’,while they’re preaching,and getting their cock and ass sucked,while they’re spreading the gospel?
There was this one Baptist minister ,who really got into having his big uncut cock sucked,while I was under his robes,at the same time ? That was just foreplay.The sex got really good,after the congregation left,and I got him on all fours,and the choir director/organist played the William Tell Overture(of course,he need dick,too).

Reply
9" July 18, 2013 at 3:58 am

What if they let homosexuals have sex with a ‘man of the cloth’,while they’re preaching,and getting their cock and ass sucked,while they’re spreading the gospel?
There was this one Baptist minister ,who really got into having his big uncut cock sucked,while I was under his robes,at the same time ? That was just foreplay.The sex got really good,after the congregation left,and I got him on all fours,and the choir director/organist played the William Tell Overture(of course,he need dick,too).

Reply
ehall1072 August 9, 2013 at 12:32 pm

Is the Advent fighting over homosexuality? I have many friends there — good people both for and against homosexual marriage. Im Baptist but love the Episcopal Church and praying for them all. This is not a good and bad issue. Theym are fine people. We need to pray.

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ehall1072 August 9, 2013 at 12:32 pm

Is the Advent fighting over homosexuality? I have many friends there — good people both for and against homosexual marriage. Im Baptist but love the Episcopal Church and praying for them all. This is not a good and bad issue. Theym are fine people. We need to pray.

Reply

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